Nov 20, 2017, 2:16 pm
Last edit by: Argonaut1000
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
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From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
- Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
- Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
- Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
- Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight
May 23, 2019, 4:00 pm
#1831
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,150
Hmm I feel like my mattress pad partially deflated on my last flight. I need to test it out at home tonight before my trip tomorrow. If it's somehow gained its own puncture, Amazon is going to see a bad review.
It's equally likely I just didn't inflate it as much as I thought, or didn't close the seal properly. I just know it wasn't as firm as I expected when I woke up.
It's equally likely I just didn't inflate it as much as I thought, or didn't close the seal properly. I just know it wasn't as firm as I expected when I woke up.
May 23, 2019, 4:32 pm
#1832
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,254
May 23, 2019, 4:36 pm
#1833
Join Date: Mar 2008
Programs: AC SE MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 904
As per the wiki
@YVRtoYYZ @canadiancow @Bohemian1 @canopus27
Any reviews and any difficulties/challenges/tips using them in an AC DreamCabin deflated pod seat?
@YVRtoYYZ @canadiancow @Bohemian1 @canopus27
Any reviews and any difficulties/challenges/tips using them in an AC DreamCabin deflated pod seat?
But for me, really glad I made the purchase despite the higher cost than other options.
May 23, 2019, 4:41 pm
#1834
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,254
I've used my Klymit twice. Length is roughly from the headrest to the footstool. I intentionally bought this brand/model as it is narrower and fits perfectly in the 21" wide pod. Takes 8-9 breaths to fully inflate; easy to deflate/store within the confines of the pod. Only drawback is it raises you off the seat roughly 2" bringing you that much closer to the table tray if you are a side-sleeper.
But for me, really glad I made the purchase despite the higher cost than other options.
But for me, really glad I made the purchase despite the higher cost than other options.
It also looks ribbed for his/her pleasure as well.
May 23, 2019, 4:59 pm
#1836
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,254
May 23, 2019, 8:17 pm
#1839
Join Date: Jan 2001
Programs: AC SEMM
Posts: 724
I assume you are referring to mattress inflation pressure, as the pressures at altitude are easily confirmed. I would argue that mattress inflation pressure cannot be that much higher than what i proposed. Consider a 100 kg person sitting on the cushion engaging an area 0.5 x 0.5 m2 say. Pressure is then ~1000 N /0.25 m2 =4000 Pa =4 KPa ~ 0.6 psi. We know by experience that the cushion deforms as we sit on it, thus the mattress pressure must be comparable to this extra distributed force... let's say my numbers are low, and the inflation pressure is six-fold, at about 3 psi. The pressure change due to flight is still comparable. If the system does not pressure relieve then my point is even more valid - in flight the pressure differential driving the leak is even bigger! However that would make the cushion noticeably stiffer. If your disbelief comes from the unlikeliness of having a pressure control valve, the other possibility is that there is some natural leakage rate of the system, and the pumps are always working, or perhaps the relief valve is a simple flap valve that responds to significant over-pressure. In all cases, my point remains valid, which is that there is likely an over-pressure cycle on take-off that might make a leak noticeable only after take-off.
May 23, 2019, 9:46 pm
#1840
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,789
I assume you are referring to mattress inflation pressure, as the pressures at altitude are easily confirmed. I would argue that mattress inflation pressure cannot be that much higher than what i proposed. Consider a 100 kg person sitting on the cushion engaging an area 0.5 x 0.5 m2 say. Pressure is then ~1000 N /0.25 m2 =4000 Pa =4 KPa ~ 0.6 psi.
You think if no one is sitting then the pressure is zero? In other words, you need to account for hoop stress.
May 23, 2019, 10:27 pm
#1841
Join Date: Jan 2001
Programs: AC SEMM
Posts: 724
Apologies if some detail is wrong, but this is how I would go about solving analytically to get a feel for key parameters. Real geometry is of course more complex, so FE would be the obvious brute force solution. However, I would expect that my observation stands: if the cushion deforms when I sit on it, then the internal pressure is comparable to my body weight pressure.
May 24, 2019, 12:50 am
#1842
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K, AC-3MM, Marriott- LT Titanium, SPG RIP
Posts: 2,958
Had my first deflated seat in 6 months a few days ago on AC 61.
My seat was flat upon boarding, so I asked that maintenance be called to change the bladder. There were at least two other seats deflated upon boarding, so maintenance had to deal with those too.
Maintenance arrived, reset the seat and assured me that it will not deflate again-- talked about it being a pump issue. He said the Captain should so a full reset of the system each time he is preparing for the flight and these issues would be avoided
The inflation did last almost 6 hours, but then deflated and then kept deflating despite resets... Each time one of the SDs would ask me 'Is it working now?'....this is despite me explaining that it wont actually 'work' as there is a hole in the seat bladder and that it should have been changed.
I did deploy my inflatable mattress for the first time, and the SD thought that was 'hilarious'. Slept well after that,
I did receive the compensation form.
My seat was flat upon boarding, so I asked that maintenance be called to change the bladder. There were at least two other seats deflated upon boarding, so maintenance had to deal with those too.
Maintenance arrived, reset the seat and assured me that it will not deflate again-- talked about it being a pump issue. He said the Captain should so a full reset of the system each time he is preparing for the flight and these issues would be avoided
The inflation did last almost 6 hours, but then deflated and then kept deflating despite resets... Each time one of the SDs would ask me 'Is it working now?'....this is despite me explaining that it wont actually 'work' as there is a hole in the seat bladder and that it should have been changed.
I did deploy my inflatable mattress for the first time, and the SD thought that was 'hilarious'. Slept well after that,
I did receive the compensation form.
May 24, 2019, 8:18 am
#1843
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,789
Indeed. Here is the thought experiment: Consider a thin wall tube, uniform wall thickness, stresses are small (even for polymer above Tg) so OK to treat it as inextensible, ignore bending stiffness (membrane only as T>Tg and thin wall). Initially, internal pressure is equilibriated by hoop stress, shape is circular. Now apply a vertical force due to body weight. Shape deforms, elliptical. In vertical direction, equilibrium is net pressure (which is original pressure) x resolved horizontal area reacted by hoop stress x total wall area. In horizontal direction, equilibrium is total pressure (original pressure + pressure due to passenger weight) x smaller resolved vertical area reacted by same hoop stress x same total wall area. This can be solved to give aspect ratio of ellipse in terms of ratio of passenger weight pressure to initial pressure. Clearly if ratio of these pressures is small then the cross-section does not deform, shape remains essentially circular. If there is any appreciable deformation, then this indicates that passenger weight pressure is comparable to original internal pressure.
Slowly getting there, but not quite. Even if wall is thin, stresses need not be small even if inextensible. Ratio between stress and displacement is given by the modulus of elasticity. Consider a rectangular cross-section rather than round, makes the reasoning easier (although that will entail some stiffening that will support bending). But anyway, then in the absence of load, stress on the sides is due to difference of pressure outside and inside, times horizontal cross-section. If when adding a load (you or me), top stays flat, then the normal stress in the side walls drops, but pressure inside does not change.
May 24, 2019, 5:03 pm
#1844
Join Date: Dec 2005
Programs: UA, AA, VS, SQ, AS
Posts: 190
On May 1, 2019, I noticed lower part of executive seat was extremely hard and deflated on AC92 while at gate in YYZ. Notified cabin crew during boarding and, within 5 minutes, a tech came on board, removed both the cloth covering on seat and deflated bubble support layering and replaced it with new bubble support layer. This took all of 5 minutes for him to complete. Super comfortable and no issues throughout long flight to SCL. Had I not seen this posting about the deflation issues, I would not have even known to notify cabin crew. Handled professionally and without the attitude that I usually find on US carriers.
Merci,
putongo
Merci,
putongo
May 24, 2019, 5:43 pm
#1845
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,295
Preparing for 4 flights this weekend. Just testing it to make sure it doesn't have its own issue.
Also, it took a little under 10 full breaths to inflate.
Also, it took a little under 10 full breaths to inflate.
