Nov 20, 2017, 2:16 pm
Last edit by: Argonaut1000
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
- Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
- Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
- Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
- Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight
Mar 26, 2019, 10:14 pm
#1503
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
Mar 26, 2019, 10:33 pm
#1504
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,302
FIN 853 seat 1D deflated half way through YYZ-SFO, walking up the UA GS occupant.
SD tried to say AC was still the best, in THIS context
They were out of the real compensation forms, but it was definitely logged.
SD tried to say AC was still the best, in THIS context
They were out of the real compensation forms, but it was definitely logged.
Mar 26, 2019, 10:56 pm
#1505
Join Date: May 2001
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SEMM
Posts: 2,072
I'm flying on 2 AC flights next week in J (first time in AC J, looking forward to it), but now I'm quite nervous after reading these reports ... how common is this issue on the 787s and 77Ws? I.e. is it normal for at least one seat to deflate on every flight, or is it much more rare than that?
Mar 27, 2019, 12:10 am
#1507
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: AC 50K
Posts: 199
Spoke with an SD friend of mine today who said that she is always able to fix the seat by using the under seat toggle switch to turn the seat off. Specifically she said, “you need to leave it off for a minimum of 10 minutes to allow it to reset fully”. Haven’t tried this yet, but she said it works every time for her. Perhaps someone who files wide body J more than I do could give this a shot.
Mar 27, 2019, 12:39 am
#1508
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,187
neither the power reset nor the rondelle reset are capable of repairing a physical puncture in the air mattress.
punctures/defects in the seams are the ONLY reason these seats are deflating. they do not deflate on their own, nor is there a "rock hard bench" setting 50 levels below the minimum setting on the 'softer, firmer' scale.
a "fix" might seem to work for 10min, an hour, or a couple hours. but the pump shuts back off. I assume it shuts down because of an internal maximum duty cycle/protection circuit to prevent the motor from damage/overheating.
punctures/defects in the seams are the ONLY reason these seats are deflating. they do not deflate on their own, nor is there a "rock hard bench" setting 50 levels below the minimum setting on the 'softer, firmer' scale.
a "fix" might seem to work for 10min, an hour, or a couple hours. but the pump shuts back off. I assume it shuts down because of an internal maximum duty cycle/protection circuit to prevent the motor from damage/overheating.
Last edited by expert7700; Mar 27, 2019 at 12:56 am
Mar 27, 2019, 12:14 pm
#1510
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YYC
Programs: AC*50K MM
Posts: 276
Another update on my end. Went into the Concierge office on my last trip and explained the issue. They did not seem too impressed how the overall situation was being handled. They were unaware of the seat issues as well. I also replied back to the standard $500 voucher email indicating I was not happy and asked for a call back and at least an acknowledgement of what I sent them and not the same BS boilerplate. These two actions netted two things. From the concierge complaint side I got a voicemail from a VIP/Global Concierge rep to discuss. I have yet however to speak with him live. I also got a reply back from the Customer Relations Executive Center with an increase to the compensation $XXXX, but I still feel it's borderline a slap in the face given the situation, the fact I had no lavatory for 8 hours and how much I paid for that J ticket. Regardless here is the letter I received:
Thank you for your email, which was passed along to us in Customer Relations. I am very sorry you have experienced multiple broken seats and washrooms while traveling in the business class cabin, the latest being on our flight from XXXX
Unfortunately, this has been a recurring issue from the manufacture, even when new seats are installed. The cushions leaking on the Super Diamond seats is happening on the B787 and B777 aircraft. A solution for this issue was expected from the cushion manufacturer in December 2018, but due to some certification issues (Boeing and Government), the availability of the solution has been delayed to April 2019.
The available options we have right now are to replace seats, which we do at every opportunity and to have the cabin crew reset the seat. We know a comfortable seat makes a journey more pleasant, and I regret we continue to disappoint on this matter.
As a gesture of goodwill, I have provided an eCoupon below, which I hope is helpful on a future flight.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for your loyalty to Air Canada, as your business has been very important to us.
Thank you for your email, which was passed along to us in Customer Relations. I am very sorry you have experienced multiple broken seats and washrooms while traveling in the business class cabin, the latest being on our flight from XXXX
Unfortunately, this has been a recurring issue from the manufacture, even when new seats are installed. The cushions leaking on the Super Diamond seats is happening on the B787 and B777 aircraft. A solution for this issue was expected from the cushion manufacturer in December 2018, but due to some certification issues (Boeing and Government), the availability of the solution has been delayed to April 2019.
The available options we have right now are to replace seats, which we do at every opportunity and to have the cabin crew reset the seat. We know a comfortable seat makes a journey more pleasant, and I regret we continue to disappoint on this matter.
As a gesture of goodwill, I have provided an eCoupon below, which I hope is helpful on a future flight.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for your loyalty to Air Canada, as your business has been very important to us.
Mar 27, 2019, 1:19 pm
#1512
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
Mar 27, 2019, 1:23 pm
#1513
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Spoke with an SD friend of mine today who said that she is always able to fix the seat by using the under seat toggle switch to turn the seat off. Specifically she said, “you need to leave it off for a minimum of 10 minutes to allow it to reset fully”. Haven’t tried this yet, but she said it works every time for her. Perhaps someone who files wide body J more than I do could give this a shot.
Respectfully, no.
Perhaps the comments should be included in this thread.
Weird or just plain incorrect things FAs/SDs have said while on board
neither the power reset nor the rondelle reset are capable of repairing a physical puncture in the air mattress.
punctures/defects in the seams are the ONLY reason these seats are deflating. they do not deflate on their own, nor is there a "rock hard bench" setting 50 levels below the minimum setting on the 'softer, firmer' scale.
.........
punctures/defects in the seams are the ONLY reason these seats are deflating. they do not deflate on their own, nor is there a "rock hard bench" setting 50 levels below the minimum setting on the 'softer, firmer' scale.
.........
On those occasions where a SD has spoken with the maintenance guys, they may be told the technical details. Otherwise, to many, it's just a deflated balloon. All that matters to them at that point is does the J pax need to be moved to another seat and is another seat available.
@expert7700 I have saved a copy of your post and the next time a SD says "I was not aware", I will encourage them to become aware.
Another update on my end. Went into the Concierge office on my last trip and explained the issue. They did not seem too impressed how the overall situation was being handled. They were unaware of the seat issues as well. I also replied back to the standard $500 voucher email indicating I was not happy and asked for a call back and at least an acknowledgement of what I sent them and not the same BS boilerplate. These two actions netted two things. From the concierge complaint side I got a voicemail from a VIP/Global Concierge rep to discuss. I have yet however to speak with him live. I also got a reply back from the Customer Relations Executive Center with an increase to the compensation $XXXX, but I still feel it's borderline a slap in the face given the situation, the fact I had no lavatory for 8 hours and how much I paid for that J ticket. Regardless here is the letter I received:
Thank you for your email, which was passed along to us in Customer Relations. I am very sorry you have experienced multiple broken seats and washrooms while traveling in the business class cabin, the latest being on our flight from XXXX
Unfortunately, this has been a recurring issue from the manufacture, even when new seats are installed. The cushions leaking on the Super Diamond seats is happening on the B787 and B777 aircraft. A solution for this issue was expected from the cushion manufacturer in December 2018, but due to some certification issues (Boeing and Government), the availability of the solution has been delayed to April 2019.
The available options we have right now are to replace seats, which we do at every opportunity and to have the cabin crew reset the seat. We know a comfortable seat makes a journey more pleasant, and I regret we continue to disappoint on this matter.
As a gesture of goodwill, I have provided an eCoupon below, which I hope is helpful on a future flight.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for your loyalty to Air Canada, as your business has been very important to us.
Thank you for your email, which was passed along to us in Customer Relations. I am very sorry you have experienced multiple broken seats and washrooms while traveling in the business class cabin, the latest being on our flight from XXXX
Unfortunately, this has been a recurring issue from the manufacture, even when new seats are installed. The cushions leaking on the Super Diamond seats is happening on the B787 and B777 aircraft. A solution for this issue was expected from the cushion manufacturer in December 2018, but due to some certification issues (Boeing and Government), the availability of the solution has been delayed to April 2019.
The available options we have right now are to replace seats, which we do at every opportunity and to have the cabin crew reset the seat. We know a comfortable seat makes a journey more pleasant, and I regret we continue to disappoint on this matter.
As a gesture of goodwill, I have provided an eCoupon below, which I hope is helpful on a future flight.
I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for your loyalty to Air Canada, as your business has been very important to us.
I am glad to hear that the hassle of chasing after management and the people at the Exec Centre worked out for you this time. Perhaps my advice was helpful.
And along with my own email (as posted upthread) and yours, I will also use them as references - not just for future stay-flats but for educating cabin crew.
*****
We all know airlines need to differentiate their premium cabins and some airlines do it with better or different offerings for meal service and amenities, and unique custom-designed seats (e.g. SQ, QR, UA and possibly AC).
I and others have posted about the seats we've flown on other airlines, with actual lie flats, and bonus - they do not deflate........because they do not inflate.
I have no idea who at AC and Boeing thought inflating mechanism in an aircraft seat was a good idea, nor do I know how it was tested. (although some time in the past 2 years, I posted upthread the video of the engineer discussing the seats).
What we here all know is the seat is flawed and it fails to perform as promised.
And indeed @skybluesea reminded us in his post upthread, AC does charge a premium of $300+ for these seats on transcon wide body flights. Perhaps that is how the $300 "compensation" for transcon stay-flat was determined.
That math does not work when you're in pancake-mode for 15 hours to HKG.
In the end, I wonder if AC has learned anything from this issue as it relates to dealing with the poor customer experience as well as training their crews accurately on this issue. It would all make an interesting business school case study.
AC is lucky that only a small percent of its J pax are aware of the problem, and more so all those who have flown across the Pacific in a stay-flat but didn't know the seats are not supposed to be like that. What AC may not yet know is whether any of those who have cut-back their AC J 787/777 flying, or who fly other airlines instead or more often on the longer routes, is having any effect on revenue.
Now that AC is buried under the mess that is Boeing's MAX aircraft, the deflated seats just aren't that important now.
Last edited by 24left; Mar 27, 2019 at 2:08 pm
Mar 27, 2019, 2:35 pm
#1514
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YYC
Programs: AC*50K MM
Posts: 276
Despite the SD asking AC not to fly the plane, they did so with half the bathrooms in both J and Y inoperable. Due to the reduced functionality and turbulence that made it impossible to stand in line to wait for it to become available, I was never able to use it during the flight. Everyone in J was complaining and the SD had to personally apologize to everyone in J as we were waiting to deplane.
Mar 27, 2019, 2:41 pm
#1515
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
Despite the SD asking AC not to fly the plane, they did so with half the bathrooms in both J and Y inoperable. Due to the reduced functionality and turbulence that made it impossible to stand in line to wait for it to become available, I was never able to use it during the flight. Everyone in J was complaining and the SD had to personally apologize to everyone in J as we were waiting to deplane.
park bench, check
random poop on the ground, check!