Nov 20, 2017, 2:16 pm
Last edit by: Argonaut1000
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
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From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
- Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
- Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
- Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
- Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight
Mar 14, 2019, 1:15 pm
#1382
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YYC
Programs: AC*50K MM
Posts: 276
Here is the response from the Canadian Transportation Agency, which I think skybluesea suggested would be the response:
While the Agency has authority over a wide range of air transportation related services, its authority does not extend to issues related to quality of service. Upon review of your complaint, it would appear that the issue you have raised regarding deflating business class pod seats is a quality of service matter.
As to the issue of non functioning lavatories, the Agency's authority does not extend to issues related to health, safety or security. It would appear that this portion of your complaint falls under the responsibility of Transport Canada Civil Aviation.
Therefore, you may wish to forward your concerns to Transport Canada for their consideration and direct reply to you at the following link:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/menu.htm
Alternatively, you may contact them by email at [email protected]
While the Agency has authority over a wide range of air transportation related services, its authority does not extend to issues related to quality of service. Upon review of your complaint, it would appear that the issue you have raised regarding deflating business class pod seats is a quality of service matter.
As to the issue of non functioning lavatories, the Agency's authority does not extend to issues related to health, safety or security. It would appear that this portion of your complaint falls under the responsibility of Transport Canada Civil Aviation.
Therefore, you may wish to forward your concerns to Transport Canada for their consideration and direct reply to you at the following link:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/menu.htm
Alternatively, you may contact them by email at [email protected]
Mar 14, 2019, 2:31 pm
#1383
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: YYT
Programs: M-Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Aeroplan 50K, DragonPass, AMEX MR, NEXUS
Posts: 1,715
I wonder what is worse...
Deflategate, or the awkwardness of waking up the entire J class cabin while trying to recline your classic pod on the A333 and 763.
Rock concerts usually reach 120 decibels, but the classic pod is able to reach in excess of 200 decibels! Your seat neighbours will love this new alarm clock!
Deflategate, or the awkwardness of waking up the entire J class cabin while trying to recline your classic pod on the A333 and 763.
Rock concerts usually reach 120 decibels, but the classic pod is able to reach in excess of 200 decibels! Your seat neighbours will love this new alarm clock!
Mar 14, 2019, 3:22 pm
#1384
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
The fact that you equate "priority baggage handling" (which is often not delivered), "exclusive boarding lanes" (which is often not delivered), and "lie-flat bed with lumbar support", is quite telling.
I'm the first to say that my own inflatable mattress solves all my issues. But I feel like you're saying "lounge access" is equivalent to "eventually getting your destination", which is ludicrous.
So 20% of the cabin experienced deceptive advertising is acceptable? I'm not sure I'd accept 0.1%, but I certainly don't think 20% is reasonable.
My second last Signature flight had 60% of my party of 5 with deflated seats. I have no idea how many others didn't even notice.
So it's okay for companies to do bad things to thousands of people? Being properly compensated is a self-serving component of this, but I want them to stop the misleading advertising. "Working to fix it" is great, but that doesn't mean their advertising isn't misleading NOW.
I'm the first to say that my own inflatable mattress solves all my issues. But I feel like you're saying "lounge access" is equivalent to "eventually getting your destination", which is ludicrous.
So 20% of the cabin experienced deceptive advertising is acceptable? I'm not sure I'd accept 0.1%, but I certainly don't think 20% is reasonable.
My second last Signature flight had 60% of my party of 5 with deflated seats. I have no idea how many others didn't even notice.
So it's okay for companies to do bad things to thousands of people? Being properly compensated is a self-serving component of this, but I want them to stop the misleading advertising. "Working to fix it" is great, but that doesn't mean their advertising isn't misleading NOW.
In terms of what is more important to whom, and the weighting to apply, it is entirely subjective. I know someone who sleeps like a log sitting bolt upright on a plane, so doesn't really care about the onboard product, but hates lines like you wouldn't believe, so priority check in, security and boarding would probably matter to her more. For a shorter flight the lounge experience is a significant part to me, especially if I have a longer connection where I may spend more time in the lounge than in the air, since I can eat, have a few drinks, and then the flight passes by pretty quickly. For my upcoming Transpacific, which I booked AC before I was aware of this issue, you better believe the seat is damn important to me (and I am pondering my camping mat options). Again, what I feel personally, and what I understand of objective criteria are different.
Mar 14, 2019, 3:26 pm
#1385
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
@emma69
Interesting, yet I’m considering the complaint to Transport Canada independently of the CB & ASC which are contract issues that I must first make good faith efforts with AC to resolve - just contract mgmt best-practice.
Unfortunately, you are sadly mistaken with “don’t seem to care” so pending TC complaint reflects 40 years in aviation starting in primary operational roles and proceeding to have senior safety roles across modes and now teach SMS/SEMS.
If, and I stress, if AC operating unsafely, I consider it my duty to request investigation. As we learned with MAX, are we willing to bet the deflated seats or the mattresses blocking aisles aren’t real issues, only Transport Canada can make that determination.
I may be routinely obnoxious on many fronts, as many on this forum will attest, but I know where safety ranks in my decision making...what about you?
The safety issue, I said you are free to write to them. I am not sure why you have not if you feel strongly. The airline won't admit infractions in a written reply to you, so why delay? If they investigate and find no wrong doing, no harm no foul. If they find an issue, surely it is better for that to be found sooner than later.
Mar 14, 2019, 10:47 pm
#1386
Join Date: Jul 2012
Programs: AC SE MM
Posts: 300
I dunno. Never heard of that
Just flew YVR-PEK yesterday. I asked the SD “have you guys found any solution to the deflating seats?” Him and another FA looked at each other and almost in unison said, oh , we’re not familiar with this aircraft, never ever heard of this issue. I continued to educate them that it wasn’t just on the 777. I highly doubt if he’s doing overseas flights that he has never heard of this proble. He seems surprised when I said it was the same seat as the 787. It was BS.
Mar 14, 2019, 11:43 pm
#1387
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Just flew YVR-PEK yesterday. I asked the SD “have you guys found any solution to the deflating seats?” Him and another FA looked at each other and almost in unison said, oh , we’re not familiar with this aircraft, never ever heard of this issue. I continued to educate them that it wasn’t just on the 777. I highly doubt if he’s doing overseas flights that he has never heard of this proble. He seems surprised when I said it was the same seat as the 787. It was BS.
@Chowtime
I think this “not telling the truth” is a new strategy, and I will call it that, rather than use the other word.
I posted upthread about the unpleasant SD I had on my last TPAC. It was a 13 hour flight and we were talking about the issue of deflated seats. She was absolutely insistent that she never had a deflated seat on any of her flights and has never given out the white form.
She is senior in terms of years and experience and yet every other SD I’ve flown with I the past year for sure, when there was a deflated seat on my flight, they all said they’d seen it before. A few had some other comments as well.
Since I fly more than once a year, and like others here, I am statistically more likely to have the AC stay-flat experience, and since many AC employees from all parts of the company read FT, you would have to be living under a rock not to know, or maybe be a FOTSG SD. I would not expect all FAs to know.
I am also curious to see if posters here encounter more SDs who also claim that the form were not loaded.
Mar 15, 2019, 12:22 am
#1388
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
@Chowtime
I think this “not telling the truth” is a new strategy, and I will call it that, rather than use the other word.
I posted upthread about the unpleasant SD I had on my last TPAC. It was a 13 hour flight and we were talking about the issue of deflated seats. She was absolutely insistent that she never had a deflated seat on any of her flights and has never given out the white form.
She is senior in terms of years and experience and yet every other SD I’ve flown with I the past year for sure, when there was a deflated seat on my flight, they all said they’d seen it before. A few had some other comments as well.
Since I fly more than once a year, and like others here, I am statistically more likely to have the AC stay-flat experience, and since many AC employees from all parts of the company read FT, you would have to be living under a rock not to know, or maybe be a FOTSG SD. I would not expect all FAs to know.
I am also curious to see if posters here encounter more SDs who also claim that the form were not loaded.
What could have been the benefit to her for misleading customers? Perhaps she was insistent because she was being honest.
Curious that people have morphed from blaming the executive ranks for misleading the public to now suggesting the rank & file employees are participating in the obfuscation.
I trust that future AC J bookings have dried right up...?
Mar 15, 2019, 2:32 am
#1389
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 492
These types of ‘gotcha’ insinuations are an interesting turn: a presumption that others are lying (is that the word?) as a deliberate strategy. Could it be possible that the SD had never dealt with a passenger complaint for this issue? Chances are good that some of the seats were deflated on flights she worked, which is not to say the customers noticed or brought it to the attention of the crew.
What could have been the benefit to her for misleading customers? Perhaps she was insistent because she was being honest.
Curious that people have morphed from blaming the executive ranks for misleading the public to now suggesting the rank & file employees are participating in the obfuscation.
I trust that future AC J bookings have dried right up...?
As always in life it’s likely multifactorial, miscommunication, misinterpretation and misunderstanding. I for example had someone swear to me that had been specifically told never to issue a comp form if a solution was found before landing. Even if 13 or the 14 hrs were spent in a deflated seat. When I wrote in in high dudgeon was told explicitly that the directive was the opposite - always compensate even if moved after an hour or two.
Is anyone being deliberately opaque? Poster, flight crew or AC ? No. Are they sometimes more helpful / less PA? Absolutely.
I just spent days on phone trying to get home and was assured by 3 agents impossible to change. Until I got a 4th who said no seats now you should have called earlier and we would have changed.
Its life (at least one spent largely on board)
Last edited by lallied; Mar 15, 2019 at 3:01 am
Mar 15, 2019, 8:31 am
#1391
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: YYC
Programs: AC*50K MM
Posts: 276
Just flew YVR-PEK yesterday. I asked the SD “have you guys found any solution to the deflating seats?” Him and another FA looked at each other and almost in unison said, oh , we’re not familiar with this aircraft, never ever heard of this issue. I continued to educate them that it wasn’t just on the 777. I highly doubt if he’s doing overseas flights that he has never heard of this proble. He seems surprised when I said it was the same seat as the 787. It was BS.
Mar 15, 2019, 9:21 am
#1394
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 492
Mar 15, 2019, 9:35 am
#1395
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
I have no proof AC is coaching the crew. I would think that is unprofessional and potentially a mistake. But who knows what the crews say to each other.
I and others have posted our recent experiences, and comments we heard from crews, some claiming they never had a deflated seat on their flight or ever handed out a form, or never heard about the deflated seat issues or they forgot to load the compensation forms.
There are far too many incidents of deflated seats. There are records in logbooks which SDs get to see when they are adding their own notes. There are maintenance people who board some flights to try and fix seats, there are those beautifully colourful #AirCanadaCamping inflatables and there is FT, for those crew who happen to lurk. This issue has also been posted on AC employees own internal Yammer page.
Is it possible some of the thousands of AC cabin crew have not experienced a deflate, like on a narrow body or if they are new hires or if they are not on widebody routes all the time. Whatever.
I guess they've also never seen one of the emails that are sent out with the compensation....for the deflated seats...they never heard of.