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Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight

Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight

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Old Jun 19, 19, 8:24 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: canadiancow
Wiki Link
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub


View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
  • Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
  • Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
  • Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
  • Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
Note that this method has not met 100% success so YMMV.
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.

Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $150 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest)

Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)

Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)

~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU

less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON


Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?

No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...

Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.

Here is a snapshot of the full form, courtesy of canadiancow

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30914753-post1458.html
Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I've been meaning to post this for a while. This is the whole form.

The left section and the tear-off piece were filled out entirely by the SD.

My name was filled out by the SD.

I filled out my address, email, status, Aeroplan number, phone, and chose which type of compensation I wanted.

The main part of the form goes back to the SD, and the passenger keeps the little piece on the right side.



This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Originally Posted by lallied View Post



There’s a main section which the SD fills in and detachable section you get to keep. Each has a reference number. It looks like the green one to me except it’s white.




Example
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
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Old Mar 15, 19, 9:38 am
  #1396  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime PE, AC Altitude SE100K-MM
Posts: 238
Perhaps AC has not sent out a memo coaching SDs on how to manage the situation when deflates arise, and each is left to his/her device on how best to handle. For some, denial may be a strategy. Others may be honest about not having had to deal with deflates before. And for some others, they address the issue head-on and deal with it. Obviously, I prefer that they deal with the issue directly!

On two recent flights, I had two very experienced SDs, both of whom were aware of the deflating issue:
- Was on a 767 so obviously no deflates. When I mentioned this "advantage" to SD, she asked if I've encountered issues in the past, and told me how to do the rondelle reset (which I already knew).
- After boarding a 777, I was carefully checking the seat when SD came to introduce himself. I explained I was just checking to make sure my seat was functional, and he immediately told me he can fix if there's a problem. When I indicated that I knew how to reset, he indicated that I should still mention to him if there are any problems with the seats. Fortunately, the seat was fine; it was a daytime flight, so I didn't even recline the seat to lie-flat (had lots of work to do inflight).
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Old Mar 15, 19, 9:45 am
  #1397  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by SteadyAT View Post
Perhaps AC has not sent out a memo coaching SDs on how to manage the situation when deflates arise, and each is left to his/her device on how best to handle. For some, denial may be a strategy. Others may be honest about not having had to deal with deflates before. And for some others, they address the issue head-on and deal with it. Obviously, I prefer that they deal with the issue directly!

On two recent flights, I had two very experienced SDs, both of whom were aware of the deflating issue:
- Was on a 767 so obviously no deflates. When I mentioned this "advantage" to SD, she asked if I've encountered issues in the past, and told me how to do the rondelle reset (which I already knew).
- After boarding a 777, I was carefully checking the seat when SD came to introduce himself. I explained I was just checking to make sure my seat was functional, and he immediately told me he can fix if there's a problem. When I indicated that I knew how to reset, he indicated that I should still mention to him if there are any problems with the seats. Fortunately, the seat was fine; it was a daytime flight, so I didn't even recline the seat to lie-flat (had lots of work to do inflight).
IME all know the switch but only 50% know the rondelle.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 9:48 am
  #1398  
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Originally Posted by lallied View Post


IME all know the switch but only 50% know the rondelle.
On the recent transcon deflate, I told the SD I had reset with the rondelle. She said "6K just did the same thing. How do you all know about this?"

Um........
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Old Mar 15, 19, 9:58 am
  #1399  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by SteadyAT View Post
- Was on a 767 so obviously no deflates. When I mentioned this "advantage" to SD, she asked if I've encountered issues in the past, and told me how to do the rondelle reset (which I already knew).
Ditto on a recent A330 flight. Which I took intentionally to avoid a stay-flat.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 10:00 am
  #1400  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: I dunno
Programs: Too Many
Posts: 1,802
Originally Posted by 24left View Post

I have no proof AC is coaching the crew. I would think that is unprofessional and potentially a mistake
@24left
my solicitor referred a legal brief that describes CB controversial subpoena powers S.11 - here is lay article I could actually understand 🙃

https://business.financialpost.com/l...ex-its-muscles

I completely agree with you such communication would be unprofessional and a huge AC mistake, so how else did AC communicate to its SDs the code for fixing the seats? CB can get to this communication, and specifically have used S.11 in cases of deceptive advertising so precedent already exists.

your post useful to remind me that AirCanada has therefore somehow physically instructed it’s many frontline staff contrary to their advertisement.

And I got AC correspondence with a compensation offer that refers to the seats as “infallible, but fail from time to time”

ps... I actually feel sorry for the AC staff who have to pedal this nonsense, but AC booked $2 billion net operating income in the last couple years, so I am not that sorry.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 10:52 am
  #1401  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by 24left View Post
On the recent transcon deflate, I told the SD I had reset with the rondelle. She said "6K just did the same thing. How do you all know about this?"

Um........
I get asked the same question but also to tell them what the code is. On a recent flight the switch reset didn’t work so I sidled up after everybody had left and did the Rondell reset with the pax which worked for the whole flight it seemed. All beyond me. If things worked like this where I work the world would come to an end.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 11:02 am
  #1402  
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Originally Posted by skybluesea View Post


@24left
my solicitor referred a legal brief that describes CB controversial subpoena powers S.11 - here is lay article I could actually understand 🙃

https://business.financialpost.com/l...ex-its-muscles

I completely agree with you such communication would be unprofessional and a huge AC mistake, so how else did AC communicate to its SDs the code for fixing the seats? CB can get to this communication, and specifically have used S.11 in cases of deceptive advertising so precedent already exists.

your post useful to remind me that AirCanada has therefore somehow physically instructed it’s many frontline staff contrary to their advertisement.

And I got AC correspondence with a compensation offer that refers to the seats as “infallible, but fail from time to time”

ps... I actually feel sorry for the AC staff who have to pedal this nonsense, but AC booked $2 billion net operating income in the last couple years, so I am not that sorry.
Telling staff how to fix a problem that may occur doesn't indicate misleading advertising, it is no different that FAs knowing how to reset the IFE system. Although as several posters on here have said they have shown staff how to do the reset, it could quite feasibly be being disseminated by FA to FA rather than a blanket communication anyway.

As you have direct statements from Air Canada stating that they 'fail from time to time' (despite an individual's poor grasp of the meaning of the word infallible) it seems eminently sensible that they instruct staff on how to remedy the situation and exactly what the Bureau might agree is a suitable interim remedy.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 11:31 am
  #1403  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by emma69 View Post
Telling staff how to fix a problem that may occur doesn't indicate misleading advertising, it is no different that FAs knowing how to reset the IFE system. Although as several posters on here have said they have shown staff how to do the reset, it could quite feasibly be being disseminated by FA to FA rather than a blanket communication anyway.

As you have direct statements from Air Canada stating that they 'fail from time to time' (despite an individual's poor grasp of the meaning of the word infallible) it seems eminently sensible that they instruct staff on how to remedy the situation and exactly what the Bureau might agree is a suitable interim remedy.
yet the advertisement supports “infallible” without any caveat - the Act is clear that accurate and tested information needs to be provided before a purchase decision, and AC continues with same infallible advertisement despite widespread knowledge of failure.

I also will assert power imbalance as when seat deflates mid-flight, Aeronautics Act prevents me from mitigation like withdrawing from the contract, which would be a remedy available on the ground when a service provider fails. AC could withdraw from inventory seats known to repeatedly fail, so AC may knowingly sell a product that fails to meet performance test section of the Act.

and IFE is useful but available in economy just in smaller version, completely different than the core offering that the lie-flat seat represents as a competitive offering in the J marketplace...you just raised for me that maybe senior colleague at WJ May want to raise that AC competing in the WJ space with false advertising.

unfortunately, why should I have to add to my busy schedule time to resolve known AC failure, that’s a cost to me, a cost to a lot of folks on this thread and others, and AC is booking huge profits at our expense .. is this not exactly why the deceptive advertising section of the Act exists?
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Old Mar 15, 19, 12:21 pm
  #1404  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: YYT/YYC/TPE
Programs: AC SE, UA, National Exec Elite, Nexus, GE
Posts: 1,460
On a recent TPAC, I experienced my first confirmed deflated seat. Fortunately, the cabin wasn't full so I was moved to another seat. I did not make a fuss.

Having had my body trained to be able to sleep on rough surfaces over the years, I'm not sure if I was more disappointed in having suffered my first confirmed deflated seat issue, or the fact that I apparently got soft.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 4:19 pm
  #1405  
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Originally Posted by skybluesea View Post


yet the advertisement supports “infallible” without any caveat - the Act is clear that accurate and tested information needs to be provided before a purchase decision, and AC continues with same infallible advertisement despite widespread knowledge of failure.

I also will assert power imbalance as when seat deflates mid-flight, Aeronautics Act prevents me from mitigation like withdrawing from the contract, which would be a remedy available on the ground when a service provider fails. AC could withdraw from inventory seats known to repeatedly fail, so AC may knowingly sell a product that fails to meet performance test section of the Act.

and IFE is useful but available in economy just in smaller version, completely different than the core offering that the lie-flat seat represents as a competitive offering in the J marketplace...you just raised for me that maybe senior colleague at WJ May want to raise that AC competing in the WJ space with false advertising.

unfortunately, why should I have to add to my busy schedule time to resolve known AC failure, that’s a cost to me, a cost to a lot of folks on this thread and others, and AC is booking huge profits at our expense .. is this not exactly why the deceptive advertising section of the Act exists?
The Bureau would never assert that there is an expectation for a product to be infallible. It is utterly unreasonable, and any average person would acknowledge that is an unrealistic standard. Their print / online advertising doesn't, to the best of my knowledge, claim to be infallible (and if it did, it would fall under the hyperbole exemption I am guessing).

The contract of carriage doesn't guarantee you a specific seat so you cannot claim Air Canada is selling you a specific, defective, seat. Based on a number of threads here, 20% of the cabin having an issue seems to be one of the higher numbers. You have little way (wiki here excepted) of knowing if those seats have constantly failed, or if they were fixed for a time, and have broken again. Wear and tear and things not working happens on all airlines (and in my personal experience this includes defective Westjet Premium seats, so not sure they want to throw those stones around). If the crew have been told how to reset, that is mitigation in flight if it works (and it sometimes does). If they provide additional blankets etc. that is also mitigation, albeit not ideal. The fact most people are receiving compensation shows that Air Canada are fulfilling the reasonable restitution part of the problem. They are not expected to be perfect, but are obligated to try and make things right when things do fail.

You have already approached AC for resolution. I personally think claims of deceptive advertising are a non starter with the Bureau for the several reasons I have laid out, but then again, notifying them takes about as long as it takes to make a post in this forum, so I am not sure that is much of a valid claim on your time tbh. Or instructing your lawyer, which is likely even quicker since you have already contacted her/him.

Again, personally I think this is a crappy situation, and really hope they get their butts in gear and resolve it asap.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 7:39 pm
  #1406  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE100K, BA Silver, Marriott Platinum, Accor Platinum, Hilton Gold, Club Carlson Gold
Posts: 5,894
Flying AC37 to MEL tonight. I had meant to order my air mattresses on Monday night after the YYC mini-Do, but something urgent came up and I forgot. I was able to send the wife out today to pick something up, but the only thing we could get was the Klymit ones that were much more expensive than one of the other recommended options.

But this thread is so big, it was super hard to find info on which ones people had purchased, even though I knew it was in here - it's spread over a bunch of pages, by different posters, etc...

I throw it out for consideration of the group whether it would be appropriate to add a section to this thread's wiki with details of what people have used, the Amazon links, etc, or whether we might want a whole new thread dedicated to that.

Normally I'd just do the wiki myself, but there's undoubtedly someone here who has a better handle on where all the posts are and so on...

Anyway, here's hoping I'll be returning these things at the end of this trip without having to use them. My one definitely deflated seat trip (YYC-FRA in September) was a pain in the butt (and the back, and other parts) that I'd rather not have to re-live.
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Last edited by Adam Smith; Mar 15, 19 at 7:47 pm
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Old Mar 15, 19, 7:46 pm
  #1407  
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
.......Normally I'd just do the wiki myself, but there's undoubtedly someone here who has a better handle on where all the posts are and so on.........



Not sure if this was the first mention......still looking, LOLL

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30591310-post753.html
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Old Mar 15, 19, 7:49 pm
  #1408  
 
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Originally Posted by 24left View Post
Indeed, you were one of the people I was thinking of

In addition to those who had actually purchased said air mattresses and used them.
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Old Mar 15, 19, 8:08 pm
  #1410  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
Flying AC37 to MEL tonight. I had meant to order my air mattresses on Monday night after the YYC mini-Do, but something urgent came up and I forgot. I was able to send the wife out today to pick something up, but the only thing we could get was the Klymit ones that were much more expensive than one of the other recommended options.
The Klymit one is what I purchased. It fits the width of the seat very well and is quite compact.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30857130-post1292.html
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