Nov 20, 2017, 2:16 pm
Last edit by: Argonaut1000
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
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From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
- Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
- Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
- Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
- Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.
Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $500 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest- update - 6 months later the $150 was increased to $500 - admitted they had made an error)
Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)
Standard eCoupon compensation offers (no haggling; following a recurring pattern)
~10+ hours: $1000
Long TPAC (TPE-YVR)
~6 to ~10 hours: $500
Short TPAC (NRT-YVR)
TATL
South America: YYZ-GRU
less than ~6 hours: 300
TCON
Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż ?
No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...
Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.
There is now an even newer White Form which explicitly lists "deflated seat" and "deflated seat and fixed", among many other items.
Here is a snapshot of the NEWEST full form (as of August 2019), courtesy of lallied
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31421855-post2093.html
This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight
Feb 19, 2019, 1:18 pm
#1096
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,396
BA's LHR is seasonal but runs March through October.
ZRH is seasonal and has a full business class cabin.
CDG, DUB and LGW business cabins will be launching soon (LGW in April, daily) - so yes, not yet, but yes soon (not never). I expect LGW to remain year round on 789s but not daily.
Condor has a proper business cabin to FRA.
KLM has a proper business cabin to AMS, and it is year round.
Hainan runs year round to PEK, and has a proper business cabin.
There are options. But the biggest growth will be with WS in the years to come. YYC will be lucky to hold NRT past 2019. And yes, a lot of it is seasonal flying, but most flights to Europe are during Northern Summer. In the dead of winter you'll have WS to LGW and KLM to AMS at least, and LHR via BA in March.
ZRH is seasonal and has a full business class cabin.
CDG, DUB and LGW business cabins will be launching soon (LGW in April, daily) - so yes, not yet, but yes soon (not never). I expect LGW to remain year round on 789s but not daily.
Condor has a proper business cabin to FRA.
KLM has a proper business cabin to AMS, and it is year round.
Hainan runs year round to PEK, and has a proper business cabin.
There are options. But the biggest growth will be with WS in the years to come. YYC will be lucky to hold NRT past 2019. And yes, a lot of it is seasonal flying, but most flights to Europe are during Northern Summer. In the dead of winter you'll have WS to LGW and KLM to AMS at least, and LHR via BA in March.
You have ave a choice of AC daily to LHR and FRA. And AC to NRT. Daily KLM to AMS. And if you are flexible (it seems to be just 2x a week) you can fly to PEK on Hainan. And that’s it for J. That isn’t even a “handful” of alternatives to AC. But but but. But. But. But. But somebody who doesn’t even fly AC, in J, overseas, wants to troll you all.
Edited to add: I am all for just getting a connection on a better airline in YVR or YYZ. Awesome sauce. But the contention that their are even a few reasonable options direct from YYC today in J is just stupid. There are not.
Feb 19, 2019, 1:23 pm
#1097
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Safe Travels,
James
Feb 19, 2019, 1:49 pm
#1098
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Suppose you are correct and AC SDs dutifully log all seating related issues. Then the question comes back to why isn't AC doing anything about it? Could it be that they log the issue but no one is taking a look at the logbook? Or if they are looking at the logbook, determine that the passenger won't notice (or if they do it'll be a "minor inconvenience" that can be addressed in the air)? ......
Upthread, perhaps late last year, it was posted that TC is testing new cushions. No one has returned to update that info and others here know FAR better than I do about how long it takes for safety testing.
So I'll be generous and say perhaps AC is doing something.
However, and to rinse and repeat since no one likes to read posts that are more than a day old, one major issue is the lack of communication from AC. I know no one from AC will post about it here and that's perfectly fine. And maybe there are legal liability issues so AC won't say what they are doing.
We all agree the problem persists and is now much more frequent, sometimes multiple seats per flight, and the only result are some seriously pissed off customers and some very frustrated cabin crew.
......Perhaps something could be done by having the concierges inspect the seats between the deplaning and boarding with maintenance coming on to address the issues. I suspect such a repair could be slotted in between the 1-2 hour turn around for cleaning. Has anyone requested this service from the concierge?
........
........
No way are they coming onboard to check seats and it's not their job. Period.
Based on the OTP thread and posts related to turn times, there is barely time to clean the lavs and replace pillow, blanket etc then have maintenance board every aircraft and fix the seats before the flights leave. It would be nice and it should be done - especially at the hubs.
Among many other things that I've posted above, I am also more interested in what happened when the stay-flat arrives in Asia, or the ME or India, South America, somewhere where AC does not have a maintenance team. Are the deflated seats that arrive there left to be used by the returning pax?
Just saying it all again.
Feb 19, 2019, 1:53 pm
#1099
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,396
Ok time to remind all of you just tuning in from home.....
Upthread, perhaps late last year, it was posted that TC is testing new cushions. No one has returned to update that info and others here know FAR better than I do about how long it takes for safety testing.
So I'll be generous and say perhaps AC is doing something.
However, and to rinse and repeat since no one likes to read posts that are more than a day old, one major issue is the lack of communication from AC. I know no one from AC will post about it here and that's perfectly fine. And maybe there are legal liability issues so AC won't say what they are doing.
We all agree the problem persists and is now much more frequent, sometimes multiple seats per flight, and the only result are some seriously pissed off customers and some very frustrated cabin crew.
OK, non-starter. Concierges are busy with other stuff.
No way are they coming onboard to check seats and it's not their job. Period.
Based on the OTP thread and posts related to turn times, there is barely time to clean the lavs and replace pillow, blanket etc then have maintenance board every aircraft and fix the seats before the flights leave. It would be nice and it should be done - especially at the hubs.
Among many other things that I've posted above, I am also more interested in what happened when the stay-flat arrives in Asia, or the ME or India, South America, somewhere where AC does not have a maintenance team. Are the deflated seats that arrive there left to be used by the returning pax?
Just saying it all again.
Upthread, perhaps late last year, it was posted that TC is testing new cushions. No one has returned to update that info and others here know FAR better than I do about how long it takes for safety testing.
So I'll be generous and say perhaps AC is doing something.
However, and to rinse and repeat since no one likes to read posts that are more than a day old, one major issue is the lack of communication from AC. I know no one from AC will post about it here and that's perfectly fine. And maybe there are legal liability issues so AC won't say what they are doing.
We all agree the problem persists and is now much more frequent, sometimes multiple seats per flight, and the only result are some seriously pissed off customers and some very frustrated cabin crew.
OK, non-starter. Concierges are busy with other stuff.
No way are they coming onboard to check seats and it's not their job. Period.
Based on the OTP thread and posts related to turn times, there is barely time to clean the lavs and replace pillow, blanket etc then have maintenance board every aircraft and fix the seats before the flights leave. It would be nice and it should be done - especially at the hubs.
Among many other things that I've posted above, I am also more interested in what happened when the stay-flat arrives in Asia, or the ME or India, South America, somewhere where AC does not have a maintenance team. Are the deflated seats that arrive there left to be used by the returning pax?
Just saying it all again.
And yes yes I think the OTP thread has a great deal of relevance to this thread. At least in my demented little head there seems to be some of the same basic AC DGAF going on.
Feb 19, 2019, 2:07 pm
#1100
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Concierges are busy with other stuff.
No way are they coming onboard to check seats and it's not their job. Period.
Based on the OTP thread and posts related to turn times, there is barely time to clean the lavs and replace pillow, blanket etc then have maintenance board every aircraft and fix the seats before the flights leave. It would be nice and it should be done - especially at the hubs.
Among many other things that I've posted above, I am also more interested in what happened when the stay-flat arrives in Asia, or the ME or India, South America, somewhere where AC does not have a maintenance team. Are the deflated seats that arrive there left to be used by the returning pax?
Just saying it all again.
No way are they coming onboard to check seats and it's not their job. Period.
Based on the OTP thread and posts related to turn times, there is barely time to clean the lavs and replace pillow, blanket etc then have maintenance board every aircraft and fix the seats before the flights leave. It would be nice and it should be done - especially at the hubs.
Among many other things that I've posted above, I am also more interested in what happened when the stay-flat arrives in Asia, or the ME or India, South America, somewhere where AC does not have a maintenance team. Are the deflated seats that arrive there left to be used by the returning pax?
Just saying it all again.
There certainly isn’t time to properly clean. Thus the red wine all over one side of my seat last flight.
And yes yes I think the OTP thread has a great deal of relevance to this thread. At least in my demented little head there seems to be some of the same basic AC DGAF going on.
And yes yes I think the OTP thread has a great deal of relevance to this thread. At least in my demented little head there seems to be some of the same basic AC DGAF going on.
Some food for thought!
-James
Feb 19, 2019, 2:59 pm
#1102
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,315
Assume this is the FIN? If so, same FIN: YYZ to LHR, 8A already deflated on boarding - the moment I sat down, it was like sitting on a piece of plywood covered by fabric. Informed the FA who attempted to fix; she then informed SD, who indicated mechanic was coming on board to fix. In the meantime, she located an alternate seat and offered to me. In the course of this discussion, gentleman in 8D was curious what the seat felt like. Turned out HIS seat was also deflated! I moved and later saw that mechanic was fixing both 8A & 8D. And someone was later seated in 8A.
Although my new seat (1D) was fully inflated at takeoff, I felt the air bladders inflate and deflate periodically on the lumbar after take-off. By the time I put the seat down to lie-flat position, the seat back was flat (I could feel the frame), and there was a huge gap between the seat-back and seat. I used the comforter, triple-folded, to cushion myself, and sat on the pillow to fill in the gap. Unfortunately, there were no extra comforters but I was given an extra mattress pad to further fill in the gap. In the end, I raised the seat to the relax mode (with the seatback a little more raised) to minimize lying on the seat-back and fortunately, had my own neck pillow and managed to nap for a short while on this red-eye flight in a semi-recline position. Will actually be glad to be flying home on an older 767!
This means 838 has 5 faulty seats.
Although my new seat (1D) was fully inflated at takeoff, I felt the air bladders inflate and deflate periodically on the lumbar after take-off. By the time I put the seat down to lie-flat position, the seat back was flat (I could feel the frame), and there was a huge gap between the seat-back and seat. I used the comforter, triple-folded, to cushion myself, and sat on the pillow to fill in the gap. Unfortunately, there were no extra comforters but I was given an extra mattress pad to further fill in the gap. In the end, I raised the seat to the relax mode (with the seatback a little more raised) to minimize lying on the seat-back and fortunately, had my own neck pillow and managed to nap for a short while on this red-eye flight in a semi-recline position. Will actually be glad to be flying home on an older 767!
This means 838 has 5 faulty seats.
However, 789s do not have 8D. 1-8 A/K, 1-7 D/G. Due to alignment, I presume you meant 7D, not 8D. In which case that's only 4 confirmed seats on 838, not 5. Not that 4 (or 1) is acceptable.
Feb 19, 2019, 3:40 pm
#1103
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,567
I'm tempted to setup Amazon revshare links, but I don't have that kind of time. So I'll give y'all the co-ops.
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5041-0...m-Sleeping-Pad
https://www.rei.com/product/881574/t...e-sleeping-pad
https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5041-0...m-Sleeping-Pad
https://www.rei.com/product/881574/t...e-sleeping-pad
Feb 19, 2019, 3:51 pm
#1104
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,222
Based on the OTP thread and posts related to turn times, there is barely time to clean the lavs and replace pillow, blanket etc then have maintenance board every aircraft and fix the seats before the flights leave. It would be nice and it should be done - especially at the hubs.
Feb 19, 2019, 3:56 pm
#1105
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Hopefully not a dumb question but thought I'd indulge: do AC wide-bodies go out of service for more than the 1-2 hours required for a turn (i.e. to clean the cabin, refuel, restock the food/booze, etc.) or is it just go go go for the AC jumbos?
Feb 19, 2019, 5:28 pm
#1106
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
*hint: it's an airport situated on a landmass entirely surrounded by water yet apparently is not an island. I've already contacted my alma mater to demand full refund of the tuition I paid to obtain my degree in Geography.
Originally Posted by ridefar
If I ask you: do you fly over water (as in fly TPAC or TATL) with AC our of YVR? And you reply: “Vancouver is an island so yes I fly over water” I think you have deliberately misconstrued the question in an effort to be a d—k.
Dark?
Drunk?
Darlek?
Denmark...gotta be Denmark.
Wait...duck? That doesn't make sense.
Dreadlock?
Originally Posted by skybluesea
have fun sniping- more effective to attack AC directly instead.
**also located at an airport most emphatically not on an island
Feb 19, 2019, 7:48 pm
#1107
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Nunavut
Programs: Aeroplan/RBC Rewards/Hilton Honors/SPG-Marriot/Hyatt/Nexus
Posts: 11
Guess I'll be brining my bright yellow Sea to Summit sleeping pad. Just in case. I decided saving 8 hours in connecting flight times on AC/ANA was worth changing to a direct flight on AC. I'd get the extra time in Tokyo but seems like I may come to regret that choice. Fingers crossed.
Feb 20, 2019, 2:42 am
#1109
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC SE*MM, Bonvoy LT Plat, HH Gold, National EE, Sixt Plat, Hz 5*
Posts: 2,438
Guess I'll be brining my bright yellow Sea to Summit sleeping pad. Just in case. I decided saving 8 hours in connecting flight times on AC/ANA was worth changing to a direct flight on AC. I'd get the extra time in Tokyo but seems like I may come to regret that choice. Fingers crossed.
I took AC3 a few days ago on fin 847. 2G, lower cushion was deflated. My ANA flight after was pretty nice, but I was tired and their business cradle seats weren't great for the 6+ hours to SGN. Definitely not good for side sleepers!
Feb 20, 2019, 9:25 am
#1110
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
when AC mgmt must explain to Board that banked revenue has been returned in significant amounts, this will certainly get attention. Letting AC off the hook by taking your business elsewhere means they got rewarded anyway, but going after their bank account might be hard to do, but will instill fear if successful, especially if there’s negative publicity around it.
If a thief came into your home, would you not respond in someway like call for help to prevent the loss, or would you just say I’ll just spend more money later to buy locks to stop it from happening next time - maybe a bit of both would be good, but only accepting the latter allows the thief their ill-gotten gains without challenge.
From their latest annual report:
Mandatory Retirement
Air Canada is engaged in a number of proceedings involving challenges to the mandatory retirement provisions of certain of its collective agreements, including the previous Air Canada-ACPA collective agreement, which incorporated provisions of the pension plan terms and conditions applicable to pilots requiring them to retire at age 60. Air Canada has fully or partially resolved some of these complaints and is defending others. At this time, it is not possible to determine with any degree of certainty the extent of any financial liability that may arise from Air Canada being unsuccessful in its defence of these proceedings, though any such financial liability, if imposed, would not be expected to be material.
Air Canada is engaged in a number of proceedings involving challenges to the mandatory retirement provisions of certain of its collective agreements, including the previous Air Canada-ACPA collective agreement, which incorporated provisions of the pension plan terms and conditions applicable to pilots requiring them to retire at age 60. Air Canada has fully or partially resolved some of these complaints and is defending others. At this time, it is not possible to determine with any degree of certainty the extent of any financial liability that may arise from Air Canada being unsuccessful in its defence of these proceedings, though any such financial liability, if imposed, would not be expected to be material.
- Flight Pass National Class Action
- Denied Boarding on Flight to Canada
- Denied Boarding of Flight to Canada Part II
- AC Found Guilty of Making False Compensation Claim
Safe Travels,
James