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Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight

Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight

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Old Mar 21, 19, 9:03 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: yyznomad
Wiki Link
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub


View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
  • Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
  • Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
  • Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
  • Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
Note that this method has not met 100% success so YMMV.
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.

Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $150 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest)

Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)



Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Į\_(ツ)_/Į ?

No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...

Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.

Here is a snapshot of the full form, courtesy of canadiancow

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30914753-post1458.html
Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I've been meaning to post this for a while. This is the whole form.

The left section and the tear-off piece were filled out entirely by the SD.

My name was filled out by the SD.

I filled out my address, email, status, Aeroplan number, phone, and chose which type of compensation I wanted.

The main part of the form goes back to the SD, and the passenger keeps the little piece on the right side.



This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Originally Posted by lallied View Post



Thereís a main section which the SD fills in and detachable section you get to keep. Each has a reference number. It looks like the green one to me except itís white.




Example
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
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Old Feb 7, 19, 10:03 pm
  #901  
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Originally Posted by Jumper Jack View Post
So its been almost four years? Wow
More like past four and approaching five. 801 started flying Summer 2014, IIRC. I first noticed issues in the late summer/early fall, IIRC.

But reports started coming in strong maybe around 2015/16.
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Old Feb 7, 19, 10:08 pm
  #902  
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
More like past four and approaching five. 801 started flying Summer 2014, IIRC. I first noticed issues in the late summer/early fall, IIRC.

But reports started coming in strong maybe around 2015/16.
Can someone please draw one of those cool timeline things where you note when specific aircraft entered the fleet, first known occurrence or report of stay-flat or in my case, a ghost seat (saw one recently on an AC 17). Then, you can add in when AC first acknowledged the problem (if anyone knows), add in the date of this thread's OP by @canadiancow, and so on.
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Old Feb 7, 19, 10:20 pm
  #903  
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Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
More like past four and approaching five. 801 started flying Summer 2014, IIRC. I first noticed issues in the late summer/early fall, IIRC.

But reports started coming in strong maybe around 2015/16.
I want to be fair to AC here.

I flew 806/1K, and my sentiment was "something feels off about this seat". I mentioned it to the SD, but nothing was done. MAYBE it was logged. But I didn't really have a "complaint".

The entire reason I finally made this thread was that so many people were starting to have the same issues, but there wasn't enough visibility.

AC very quickly stated (in private, at least) that they were aware of an issue and were working to get it fixed. It seems like it's tied up in regulatory crap right now. I treat it like the wifi. It's currently held up for regulatory reasons, so the delay is not AC's fault, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to book other airlines.

How AC deals with compensation is their fault though...
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Old Feb 7, 19, 11:53 pm
  #904  
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I want to be fair to AC here.

I flew 806/1K, and my sentiment was "something feels off about this seat". I mentioned it to the SD, but nothing was done. MAYBE it was logged. But I didn't really have a "complaint".

The entire reason I finally made this thread was that so many people were starting to have the same issues, but there wasn't enough visibility.

AC very quickly stated (in private, at least) that they were aware of an issue and were working to get it fixed. It seems like it's tied up in regulatory crap right now. I treat it like the wifi. It's currently held up for regulatory reasons, so the delay is not AC's fault, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to book other airlines.

How AC deals with compensation is their fault though...
Yeah, I was just stating data points of what I've experienced as well as noticed here on FT.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 4:03 am
  #905  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: London
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Originally Posted by chazbag View Post


Update to this: Iíve now been offered a 25% discount code in total for the two pancake seats. No offer of AP miles. Have pushed back again. Unfortunately the customer service rep is not terribly competent. Have asked for an offer reflecting the two deflated seats with the choice of AP miles / discount code and to speak to a manager. Anyone ever managed a call back from them?
Update to my update. Iíve now been offered either 20% off or 2,000 (not 20,000) non status miles for two pancake seats in a row between lhr and yyz.

They wonít escalate and customer service on Twitter is standing by the decision.

Safe to say Iíll end up with the 20% and avoid AC like the plague after itís used.

Anyone else experienced this and pushed back effectively? Am furious and super confused.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 5:40 am
  #906  
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Bolding mine

Originally Posted by chazbag View Post

Update to my update. I’ve now been offered either 20% off or 2,000 (not 20,000) non status miles for two pancake seats in a row between lhr and yyz.

They won’t escalate and customer service on Twitter is standing by the decision.

Safe to say I’ll end up with the 20% and avoid AC like the plague after it’s used.

Anyone else experienced this and pushed back effectively? Am furious and super confused.
I think most people won't post if they have been successful or not as they don't want to reveal anything they received or didn't receive. What we see here on FT is a small sample size.


However, those who have cancelled flights on AC, or who have booked other airlines instead, or who have decided to sit the game out until this is properly solved by AC, are likely doing so in silence on FT. If they are not on FT, we only know of those who may have posted to other social media. We don't know about those who have communicated with AC on their own. We also don't know if the numbers are even moving the AC needle in terms of considering this a problem big enough to get the attention of revenue management, and do something other than offer $500 for a ticket in the thousands, especially to those who have spent well over $20,000 per year.

Further, all of these examples of faux-compensation are designed to get those affected to spend more.


I think the words of @canadiancow are correct.

In his OP in November 2017, he wrote:

Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
The new executive pods are the worst thing to ever happen to Air Canada’s international business class.

I suspect the problem is more widespread than I initially thought, and I’ll explain this in a minute.
.......
So how widespread is it? On two aircraft, I’ve found 4 seats with a problem. And I’ve sat in 5 seats. My anecdotes are not sufficient data to draw conclusions, but the crew did say they’ve been noticing more problems lately, and I suspect that the incidents that are reported are a tiny fraction of the total number of deflated seats.

I’m going to write in again, and maybe get another $500 credit, but holy crap Air Canada. This is literally your pride and joy. And it sucks. Fix it. Even if there were a foam pad below the inflatable cushion, it would ensure that no one is ever sitting on a slab of metal.

And in his post yesterday he wrote:

Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
.......
The entire reason I finally made this thread was that so many people were starting to have the same issues, but there wasn't enough visibility.

AC very quickly stated (in private, at least) that they were aware of an issue and were working to get it fixed. It seems like it's tied up in regulatory crap right now. I treat it like the wifi. It's currently held up for regulatory reasons, so the delay is not AC's fault, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to book other airlines.

How AC deals with compensation is their fault though...
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Old Feb 8, 19, 6:56 am
  #907  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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How hard could it be for AC to load some foam pads on every 777/787 flight in case some seats deflate? Sure, not ideal solution, but if the fix for the seat really is going through certification, then it would only be needed for a limited time...
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Old Feb 8, 19, 6:59 am
  #908  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
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I'm having problems with my last claim, I think they are clamping down on compensation. Data point: my average AQM on AC is 273.000AQM/y, based on the last 5 years. The great majority of this is on inflatable(as in - not always inflated) seats. Living in Eastern Canada, my options are limited to reach South America without touching US soil on the way. USA transit is not an ideal situation in regular times and especially not now during the Trump shutdown.

There are 3-4 seats deflated per flight, maybe more that are not being reported. This is on 777s. It is truly getting worse, month by month.

so, to circle back: occurrences are up and it appears that compensation is down. Major problem for frequent flyers who only want a comfortable bed and don't care about the rest.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 7:16 am
  #909  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
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Originally Posted by 24left View Post

I think most people won't post if they have been successful or not as they don't want to reveal anything they received or didn't receive. What we see here on FT is a small sample size.


However, those who have cancelled flights on AC, or who have booked other airlines instead, or who have decided to sit the game out until this is properly solved by AC, are likely doing so in silence on FT. If they are not on FT, we only know of those who may have posted to other social media. We don't know about those who have communicated with AC on their own. We also don't know if the numbers are even moving the AC needle in terms of considering this a problem big enough to get the attention of revenue management, and do something other than offer $500 for a ticket in the thousands, especially to those who have spent well over $20,000 per year. :
Yeah you're totally right. It's a massive shame, I've been loyal to AC essentially my whole life and as a Canadian abroad it's often the easiest way to get back to visit family. But with their problems with the hard product, their refusal to provide adequate compensation and generally poor attitude I'm just not going to stick with them.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 7:22 am
  #910  
 
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Originally Posted by mamau View Post
I'm having problems with my last claim, I think they are clamping down on compensation. Data point: my average AQM on AC is 273.000AQM/y, based on the last 5 years. The great majority of this is on inflatable(as in - not always inflated) seats. Living in Eastern Canada, my options are limited to reach South America without touching US soil on the way. USA transit is not an ideal situation in regular times and especially not now during the Trump shutdown.

There are 3-4 seats deflated per flight, maybe more that are not being reported. This is on 777s. It is truly getting worse, month by month.

so, to circle back: occurrences are up and it appears that compensation is down. Major problem for frequent flyers who only want a comfortable bed and don't care about the rest.
I don't want to downplay any legitimate concerns you might have about transiting the US. However... is this really that much of an issue? US airports by and large work better than their Canadian counterparts. If you have Nexus/GE, security is faster and easier. Maybe you have other reasons like ethnicity that the whole thing troubles you, that's fine, and I am sure neither me nor anybody else here needs to know or cares (in a positive way, if you get my meaning). But overall, transiting the US is fine. YUL-EWR-SCL is no worse than YUL-YYZ-SCL. Not at all. Paying $8000 for a faulty product is not acceptable. Doing it repeatedly is not acceptable. If that was the choice, and if AC isn't willing to compensate you, then switch. How could you possibly continue giving tens of thousands of dollars a year -- your AQD could easily be > $100k based on your statement -- and receive terrible value? Not just bad but terrible. I would tell AC that they have reached the end of the line, they are disinterested, unfair, engaging in deceptive business, doing a switch and bait, and that you are done. Is your primary loyalty to AC or to your employer (or yourself if you are paying the bill)?

Posts like this make me wonder if it is time to crowdfund a full page add in the Globe and Mail or some such.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 8:14 am
  #911  
 
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Originally Posted by SuperCargo View Post
How hard could it be for AC to load some foam pads on every 777/787 flight in case some seats deflate? Sure, not ideal solution, but if the fix for the seat really is going through certification, then it would only be needed for a limited time...
I think if AC does it formally then the foam pads need to be certified as well (think flammability). If you and I do it, no problem! How difficult would it have been for AC to jump through the hoops for a foam pad solution? Not much, especially if someone had been assigned to a backup plan B a year ago... Frustrating.

I have my $30 inflatable pad from Amazon, fits in the palm of my hand when rolled up. If I have to use it, the cabin is going to wonder what is going on :-). I am going to film it, and share with the world. If a whole bunch of us do it, might it go viral?

Have 14 TATL/TPAC flights booked at the moment. Donít like the idea of being nervous where I should be relaxed. Defeats the purpose.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 9:25 am
  #912  
 
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I still have little confidence that their 'fix' will actually work.

Unless, of course, the 'fix' is to replace the seat with one that does not feature an unnecessary inflation feature (keep the pods, just replace the seat)
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Old Feb 8, 19, 9:54 am
  #913  
 
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Originally Posted by visitor View Post
I have my $30 inflatable pad from Amazon, fits in the palm of my hand when rolled up. If I have to use it, the cabin is going to wonder what is going on :-). I am going to film it, and share with the world. If a whole bunch of us do it, might it go viral?
I'm the process of researching something exactly like this. Just need something that packs down well.

And, if end up having to use it, I will film it and tweet about it. WIth attribution to AC, of course.
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Old Feb 8, 19, 9:56 am
  #914  
 
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Originally Posted by D582 View Post
I still have little confidence that their 'fix' will actually work.

Unless, of course, the 'fix' is to replace the seat with one that does not feature an unnecessary inflation feature (keep the pods, just replace the seat)
Another sobering thought is that there are about 1,800 of the seats in AC's fleet.

Assuming that there really is a permanent fix, imagine how long it will take to replace all of them. It could be another four years at this rate.

Last edited by Bohemian1; Feb 8, 19 at 10:13 am Reason: missing word
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Old Feb 8, 19, 10:04 am
  #915  
 
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Just wondering, why is it up to AC to solve the deflation issue? These are B/E Aerospace Super Diamond seats, that lots of airlines seem to use (including AA & QR). Is the inflation (or more accurately deflation) technology somehow unique to AC? I've been on the AA version, but it was a few years ago now and I don't remember if the seats inflated or not. With thousands of seats in the air on multiple airlines, one would think that the manufacturer would have solved this issue and had the seats re-certified by now...
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