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Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight

Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight

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Old Mar 21, 19, 9:03 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: yyznomad
Wiki Link
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub


View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
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From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
  • Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
  • Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
  • Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
  • Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
Note that this method has not met 100% success so YMMV.
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.

Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $150 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest)

Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)



Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ?

No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...

Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.

Here is a snapshot of the full form, courtesy of canadiancow

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30914753-post1458.html
Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I've been meaning to post this for a while. This is the whole form.

The left section and the tear-off piece were filled out entirely by the SD.

My name was filled out by the SD.

I filled out my address, email, status, Aeroplan number, phone, and chose which type of compensation I wanted.

The main part of the form goes back to the SD, and the passenger keeps the little piece on the right side.



This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Originally Posted by lallied View Post



There’s a main section which the SD fills in and detachable section you get to keep. Each has a reference number. It looks like the green one to me except it’s white.




Example
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
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Old Nov 4, 18, 10:13 pm
  #616  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Programs: AC SEMM
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
Wow, just making .... up. I have no idea why anyone would try to do the thing she said was causing the problem. Ridiculous.
If you say so
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Old Nov 4, 18, 10:26 pm
  #617  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
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Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
Wow, just making .... up. I have no idea why anyone would try to do the thing she said was causing the problem. Ridiculous.
I agree but would still like to see someone try this.
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Old Nov 4, 18, 10:27 pm
  #618  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE100K, BA Silver, Marriott Platinum, Accor Platinum, Hilton Gold, Club Carlson Gold
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Originally Posted by visitor View Post
If you say so
Not me - YEG_SE4Life has already said exactly what the cause is, straight from the source.
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Old Nov 4, 18, 11:05 pm
  #619  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
Not me - YEG_SE4Life has already said exactly what the cause is, straight from the source.
What was said is that it was a manufacturing defect in a plastic weld, and that the supplier has redesigned the part. The service condition(s) that exposed the defect were not shared. It is not ridiculous that unanticipated use/abuse of the seat cushions is part of the story. If it were truly just a manufacturing defect, there would be no need to go to the significant expense of redesign and recertification. You would just fix the manufacturing process, improve quality control on new parts, develop a scheme to check all in-service parts, replace those that fail the test. Even if based on some sampling it were clear that it would be cheaper to just replace all seat cushions (for example the testing costs are significant) there would still be no need for a redesign and recert.

So so with all due respect, what was said by the FA is not ridiculous. It is a load case that, however unlikely in the eyes of frequent travellers on this forum, should be considered in the design.

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Last edited by visitor; Nov 4, 18 at 11:06 pm Reason: Typo
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Old Nov 5, 18, 2:36 am
  #620  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Moncton, NB, Canada
Programs: AC SEMM, AZUL DIAMANTE,GOL, Fairmont PLAT
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by yyznomad View Post
So then what did the SD say when s/he handed you the white claim form despite being told it is done on the iPad?

Also, did you have to fill out the white form? Seat no., flight no., select specific issue from a bunch of checkboxed items, describe the specific issue with a short couple of sentences, etc.? Was there a detachable portion like on the green forms with a reference no. to keep as your "receipt"?

Yes to all of the above. Relatively the same as the green sheet in the past.
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Old Nov 5, 18, 7:16 am
  #621  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,260
While I don’t know when this fix was discovered and stared being rolled out it seems to be taking a long time to deploy. I get planes are often on quick turnarounds but there are periods when they’re not in flight surely.

Maybe it takes an hour to fix each seat though. Perhaps AC should prioritize the broken seats ... based in their collection of multi coloured forms or the wiki we’ve created for them.
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Old Nov 5, 18, 7:39 am
  #622  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto - YYZ
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Posts: 5,357
Originally Posted by visitor View Post


What was said is that it was a manufacturing defect in a plastic weld, and that the supplier has redesigned the part. The service condition(s) that exposed the defect were not shared. It is not ridiculous that unanticipated use/abuse of the seat cushions is part of the story. If it were truly just a manufacturing defect, there would be no need to go to the significant expense of redesign and recertification. You would just fix the manufacturing process, improve quality control on new parts, develop a scheme to check all in-service parts, replace those that fail the test. Even if based on some sampling it were clear that it would be cheaper to just replace all seat cushions (for example the testing costs are significant) there would still be no need for a redesign and recert.

So so with all due respect, what was said by the FA is not ridiculous. It is a load case that, however unlikely in the eyes of frequent travellers on this forum, should be considered in the design.







While it might not be the primary cause, the removal of seat cushions from this seat is a tricky process, and I don't doubt that on occasion it may have disrupted or disabled a valve. Now you ask why would one remove a seat cushion? An attempt to retrieve passports, credit cards, hearing aids, mobile phones, etc which slip beneath the seats. Despite announcements regarding the retrieval of mobile devices now being commonplace on most airlines, I urge you to use the hatch which contains the handset to be used for all of your personal effects and devices when not in use. Bear in mind that due to safety concerns & TC directives, if your PED has fallen beneath your seat, all electrical functions of the seat are now deactivated until the point of landing at which point it will be addressed & retrieved by maintenance. Please USE the hatch!

Last edited by ACYYZ/SD; Nov 5, 18 at 7:46 am
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Old Nov 5, 18, 9:52 am
  #623  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,900
Originally Posted by jc94 View Post
While I don’t know when this fix was discovered and stared being rolled out it seems to be taking a long time to deploy. I get planes are often on quick turnarounds but there are periods when they’re not in flight surely.

Maybe it takes an hour to fix each seat though. Perhaps AC should prioritize the broken seats ... based in their collection of multi coloured forms or the wiki we’ve created for them.
As I stated up thread, the new bladders are available this month. AC is prioritizing known problem seats. They are also scheduling the fleet for bladder replacement. The current ones are defective. They will all be replaced.
I don't have any idea if the repositioning of seat cushions has increased the incidence of the weld fail, so I won't specifically comment on that. I also don't know whether or not any valve failures have been detected. I just know that the weld failure is the primary cause of the deflation.
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Last edited by YEG_SE4Life; Nov 5, 18 at 10:01 am
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Old Nov 5, 18, 12:13 pm
  #624  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SF Bay
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Originally Posted by YEG_SE4Life View Post
As I stated up thread, the new bladders are available this month. AC is prioritizing known problem seats. They are also scheduling the fleet for bladder replacement. The current ones are defective. They will all be replaced.
I don't have any idea if the repositioning of seat cushions has increased the incidence of the weld fail, so I won't specifically comment on that. I also don't know whether or not any valve failures have been detected. I just know that the weld failure is the primary cause of the deflation.
Do you know how involved the maintenance work is? That is, if a plane maybe has a few seats that are prone to this issue, how long they expect it'll take technicians to repair all the seats on that plane?
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Old Nov 5, 18, 12:45 pm
  #625  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by nexusCFX View Post
Do you know how involved the maintenance work is? That is, if a plane maybe has a few seats that are prone to this issue, how long they expect it'll take technicians to repair all the seats on that plane?
The most efficient way would be to track my seat selection. Currently 100% sensitivity and specifity. Though am foiling by flipping to old blue seats and defy them to deflate
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Old Nov 5, 18, 5:39 pm
  #626  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
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Originally Posted by nexusCFX View Post
Do you know how involved the maintenance work is? That is, if a plane maybe has a few seats that are prone to this issue, how long they expect it'll take technicians to repair all the seats on that plane?
I am not sure of the schedule.
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Old Nov 9, 18, 1:35 pm
  #627  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 2,020
Although I am actively avoiding any AC 777/787 flights until there's some indication that the problem has gone away, I did book a trip with a 787 leg a while back that I flew today. Across the Atlantic. In a deflated seat. Again.

I checked the seat upon boarding and it seemed okay. But it was one of the slowly leaking seats, and required me to perform the reset process (as documented in the Wiki and sadly now memorized by me) about every 60-90 minutes. This was easy to remember since I woke up every time my bony hips were being displaced by the metal frame underneath, which was my cue to re-inflate.

After a bit of this, I pointed out this issue to our SD. I've encountered my fair share of ignorance and/or apathy from SDs and FAs on this matter, and his response fell into the latter category. He said words to the effect of "oh well, at least it's a slow leak" and he'd make a note of it (he scrawled my seat number on one the tags on a nearby catering bin) and sent me on my merry way so that he could have his supper. No offer of a form and frankly I was too tired to remind him that I was the customer here. Why should we have to fight for something we are paying for? Both J and PY were full, so no alternate seat option (again) either. I will fill out the online form and see what happens.

Oh well, at least the catering ex-CDG was good and the shower in YYZ DOM MLL didn't try to attack me. And there will be no more AC 777/787s in the foreseeable future either.

For the record, this was FIN 845 operating as AC 881 (CDG-YYZ) and the seat in question was 5G. Edit: Issue tracker updated.
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Last edited by Bohemian1; Nov 10, 18 at 11:57 am Reason: Added Issue Tracker update
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Old Nov 9, 18, 8:12 pm
  #628  
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Programs: AC S100K, A3*S, SPG Gold, CC Gold, HH Diamond
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6G on 739 on Wednesday had the upper portion deflated. A reset seemed to correct it for the rest of the flight, but I wasn't the one sitting in it.

My colleague had never flown J before, so he didn't quite understand the issue.
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Old Nov 10, 18, 4:36 am
  #629  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Titanium, NEXUS
Posts: 460
Just got off of AC17 (FIN 846). My seat was fine (5K) but after 11 hours of discomfort my wife pointed out that hers was deflated (6K). SD was able to reset it for the last hour and a half of the flight.
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Old Nov 10, 18, 5:01 am
  #630  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: YYZ
Programs: Aeroplan, Skymiles, Accor Gold,, Hilton gold
Posts: 328
Would someone have a picture of what the form looks like? It could come in handy when asking for it and the SD have no clue what we are talking about. Perhaps adding it to the WIKi (if it takes images) as well.
I just want to be prepared in case I experience it on my upcoming flight.
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