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Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight

Deflategate; new executive pods deflating in-flight

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Old Mar 21, 19, 9:03 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: yyznomad
Wiki Link
Click here to go to a picture of the White Compensation Form and its stub


View Deflated Seat History Here (Database for submitted occurrences)
Enter New Deflated Seat Occurrence Here (Submit one if you have experienced deflated seat and it will show up in the database above)
----
From post #49 in this thread, here's one potential way to (re)inflate an AC seat:
  • Go the home screen "Your Seat". (find this on the seat side panel; not the main video screen)
  • Hold the top left hand corner "Air Canada" (with AC logo) for 3 seconds. Updated (Apr 9 18): may need to hold for as long as 45 seconds for key pad to appear
  • Dial pad shows up - hit 3-2-1.
  • Press "Reset Lumbar Support"
Note that this method has not met 100% success so YMMV.
A better method is for a crew member to use the reset switch under the seat, on the aisle side.

Compensation offers (green/white sheet completed)
40K AE- Apr 18 (50% back of the J class one way redemption)
2018 Jun - $500 coupon
2018 Sep $1,000 eCoupon or 40K AP (P fare TPAC)
2018 Sep $150 eCoupon (P fare TPAC) (no change on protest)

Compensation offers (no green/white sheet completed)
100K - May 5 (C$150 eCoupon; was moved to a functioning seat after meal service)
2017 Sept - 8,000 AE miles - reported via complaint web page after realizing it was a faulty seat, not standard discomfort; Asked for return of eUps but they declined.
2017 Nov & 2018 Feb - $500 coupons both times (second time on protest that $500 had been offered the previous time)
2018 Sep. $250 coupon (on a paid J TATL).
2018 Nov - $500 eCoupon (J TATL)



Have a Service Director (SD) That Is Giving You the Case of the Shrugs? Like the real life version of this ASCII emoji -> Į\_(ツ)_/Į ?

No success with the SD and/or crew rectifying your deflated seat and you can't be/aren't accommodated to another J seat? If you asked for a compensation form and the SD says they have no idea what you are talking about, you can use the below picture of the stub portion to help freshen their memory (better than nothing)...

Please note that for the longest time, the "Green Compensation Form" version was used, and there have been recent reports of the "White Compensation Form" replacing the Green version. Reports here have indicated that the two forms are virtually identical except for the colour.

Here is a snapshot of the full form, courtesy of canadiancow

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30914753-post1458.html
Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I've been meaning to post this for a while. This is the whole form.

The left section and the tear-off piece were filled out entirely by the SD.

My name was filled out by the SD.

I filled out my address, email, status, Aeroplan number, phone, and chose which type of compensation I wanted.

The main part of the form goes back to the SD, and the passenger keeps the little piece on the right side.



This is only the stub portion, courtesy of lallied
Originally Posted by lallied View Post



Thereís a main section which the SD fills in and detachable section you get to keep. Each has a reference number. It looks like the green one to me except itís white.




Example
Mattress pads purchased and listed in this thread
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Old May 24, 19, 6:02 pm
  #1846  
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Wow there's definitely a leak in it. Crap.

I guess deflategate IS contagious.

I don't know what I'm going to do this weekend now :/
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Old May 24, 19, 6:14 pm
  #1847  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
Wow there's definitely a leak in it. Crap.

I guess deflategate IS contagious.

I don't know what I'm going to do this weekend now :/
Pray. Thatís all you can really do at this point.
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Old May 24, 19, 6:14 pm
  #1848  
 
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Guess you should have been prepared with an ďairĒ and a spare...
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Old May 24, 19, 7:14 pm
  #1849  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
Wow there's definitely a leak in it. Crap.

I guess deflategate IS contagious.

I don't know what I'm going to do this weekend now :/
Bummer, sorry to hear that. Too late to get a same day delivery from Amazon?
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Old May 24, 19, 7:16 pm
  #1850  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
Wow there's definitely a leak in it. Crap.

I guess deflategate IS contagious.

I don't know what I'm going to do this weekend now :/
didnít your mattress come with a small patch kit??
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Old May 24, 19, 7:16 pm
  #1851  
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Originally Posted by canopus27 View Post
Bummer, sorry to hear that. Too late to get a same day delivery from Amazon?
It's 6pm. I reinflated it, and made sure the thing was sealed as much as I could do, and it seemed to last longer. But I packed it up after 30 minutes. Hopefully I don't need it.
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Old May 24, 19, 7:36 pm
  #1852  
 
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Originally Posted by visitor View Post
Indeed. Here is the thought experiment: Consider a thin wall tube, uniform wall thickness, stresses are small (even for polymer above Tg) so OK to treat it as inextensible, ignore bending stiffness (membrane only as T>Tg and thin wall). Initially, internal pressure is equilibriated by hoop stress, shape is circular. Now apply a vertical force due to body weight. Shape deforms, elliptical. In vertical direction, equilibrium is net pressure (which is original pressure) x resolved horizontal area reacted by hoop stress x total wall area. In horizontal direction, equilibrium is total pressure (original pressure + pressure due to passenger weight) x smaller resolved vertical area reacted by same hoop stress x same total wall area. This can be solved to give aspect ratio of ellipse in terms of ratio of passenger weight pressure to initial pressure. Clearly if ratio of these pressures is small then the cross-section does not deform, shape remains essentially circular. If there is any appreciable deformation, then this indicates that passenger weight pressure is comparable to original internal pressure.

Apologies if some detail is wrong, but this is how I would go about solving analytically to get a feel for key parameters. Real geometry is of course more complex, so FE would be the obvious brute force solution. However, I would expect that my observation stands: if the cushion deforms when I sit on it, then the internal pressure is comparable to my body weight pressure.
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Slowly getting there, but not quite. Even if wall is thin, stresses need not be small even if inextensible. Ratio between stress and displacement is given by the modulus of elasticity. Consider a rectangular cross-section rather than round, makes the reasoning easier (although that will entail some stiffening that will support bending). But anyway, then in the absence of load, stress on the sides is due to difference of pressure outside and inside, times horizontal cross-section. If when adding a load (you or me), top stays flat, then the normal stress in the side walls drops, but pressure inside does not change.
Nice to see some physics discussions here (even if they've got an engineering mask ;-) ). Real world physics problems are notoriously intractable, so I always favour simplifying them as much as possible. The weight of the person on the seat has to equal the upward force from the mattress on the person. What that looks like in between is up for debate and really defines all the comfort. But anyway, another way to think about this problem is to imagine an object floating in water (using buoyant force arguments), imagining "water" as the fluid (air) inside the bladder. The deformation (or level of float) is entirely defined by the density of the fluid and the mass distribution of the person if you assume the bladder/interface is easily moved around. The density/pressure inside will change with altitude, so to maintain comfort (the ideal deformation) there must (as was stated earlier in the thread) be some kind of compensation mechanism in flight. Too many things can go wrong. It's comical that one has to bring an air mattress with them in a lie-flat J.
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Old May 24, 19, 8:39 pm
  #1853  
 
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Something I haven't seen discussed much here is the utility of the seats when they actually do work. Does anyone consistently change the firmness setting from the default? I find that the default firmness is fine for me, and if you go down more than one notch to make it softer it ends up not sufficiently supporting you in lie-flat mode; it's not inflated enough to keep you from feeling the metal parts underneath. I wonder if AC did any studies of how often the feature is actually used by passengers? Perhaps it would have been better to just kill the feature entirely and use normal seat padding like other airlines using the super diamond seat?
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Old May 27, 19, 10:43 pm
  #1854  
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AC 739, YYZ-SFO, May 27.

We were delayed after a FIN swap. Oh boy. Now on 847! Seat 1D, since that's relevant.

Nothing like waiking up with a literal pain in my a... butt.

SD wasn't in the galley, but the captain was. I told him not say "Frisco". He seemed to appreciate that it was an inappropriate thing he had said numerous times to the entire aircraft.

I also happened to mention to the FA up there (SD was busy with a medical) that my seat had deflated. The butt part. It woke me up. Because my butt hurt.

Anyway, not much issue getting the comp form. Except the SD asked if it had re-inflated! She had physically checked that it deflated, and then said she'd need someone else to reinflated it because she didn't know how!!!

I reinflated it after that. She came back, I mentioned it had reinflated, and she tried to brush it off. Like oh great it reinflated so you're good. Not like this is my second 5+ hour flight today, and the seat woke me up. It only took a minor discussion to get the comp form ("it woke me up").

But ho....ly.....crap.

When did I start this thread?

Once again, AC is very lucky that it's only my mistake fares and I-class bookings that deflate. Because while $300 is reasonable compensation when this segment cost me less than that, it wouldn't be if I'd paid $1000 for this segment. And I have paid that in the past.

Then I casually mentioned the issue to other FAs as they refilled my drink. Just in the sense of "this happens all the time but most people don't even complain". Trying to make them more aware.

Sigh.
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Old May 27, 19, 11:00 pm
  #1855  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
AC 739, YYZ-SFO, May 27.

We were delayed after a FIN swap. Oh boy. Now on 847! Seat 1D, since that's relevant.

Nothing like waiking up with a literal pain in my a... butt.

SD wasn't in the galley, but the captain was. I told him not say "Frisco". He seemed to appreciate that it was an inappropriate thing he had said numerous times to the entire aircraft.

I also happened to mention to the FA up there (SD was busy with a medical) that my seat had deflated. The butt part. It woke me up. Because my butt hurt.

Anyway, not much issue getting the comp form. Except the SD asked if it had re-inflated! She had physically checked that it deflated, and then said she'd need someone else to reinflated it because she didn't know how!!!

I reinflated it after that. She came back, I mentioned it had reinflated, and she tried to brush it off. Like oh great it reinflated so you're good. Not like this is my second 5+ hour flight today, and the seat woke me up. It only took a minor discussion to get the comp form ("it woke me up").

But ho....ly.....crap.

When did I start this thread?

Once again, AC is very lucky that it's only my mistake fares and I-class bookings that deflate. Because while $300 is reasonable compensation when this segment cost me less than that, it wouldn't be if I'd paid $1000 for this segment. And I have paid that in the past.

Then I casually mentioned the issue to other FAs as they refilled my drink. Just in the sense of "this happens all the time but most people don't even complain". Trying to make them more aware.

Sigh.
A friend of mine had a 767 subbed in on 739 a few weeks ago and I told him he might have actually lucked out.
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Old May 30, 19, 3:50 pm
  #1856  
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
When did I start this thread?
A few years after the problem started.
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Old Jun 1, 19, 4:56 am
  #1857  
 
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Flight 103 yesterday, seat 6A - lumbar deflate about 10 minutes after each reset.

SD Emily was super apologetic while she and I spoke about how ridiculous this is. We got to talking about the personal mattresses - she has heard of them but not encountered them. Emily says she would immediately tell pax to put them away as they are against the rules. She wasn't unsympathetic but rules are rules etc.

As we filled out the form together post flight she commented "at least it was only a TCON." Told her I agree but it was on the heels of a 10.5 hour flight from GRU and it would have been nice to sleep.

Saw/heard her point out 3 seats to maintenance and suggest bladder changes. 3 seats she knew of, but I was the only one getting a form.
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Old Jun 1, 19, 8:28 am
  #1858  
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Originally Posted by WaytoomuchEurope View Post
Flight 103 yesterday, seat 6A - lumbar deflate about 10 minutes after each reset.

SD Emily was super apologetic while she and I spoke about how ridiculous this is. We got to talking about the personal mattresses - she has heard of them but not encountered them. Emily says she would immediately tell pax to put them away as they are against the rules. She wasn't unsympathetic but rules are rules etc.

As we filled out the form together post flight she commented "at least it was only a TCON." Told her I agree but it was on the heels of a 10.5 hour flight from GRU and it would have been nice to sleep.

Saw/heard her point out 3 seats to maintenance and suggest bladder changes. 3 seats she knew of, but I was the only one getting a form.
Her rules or AC rules or TC rules or ?
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Old Jun 1, 19, 4:55 pm
  #1859  
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AC103 YYZ-YVR midway through the flight I noticed the lumbar portion of my seat had deflated. Brought it to the attention of the flight attendant serving my part of the plane and got puzzled "never heard of that before" response from her. Eventually went up and asked her for compensation form. She had no idea what I was talking about but a colleague pointed her to the SD who came by just before landing to apologize and give me a business card sized thing with Customer Relations info on it whom she said would offer me some sort of compensation. She acknowledged it happens all the time. I assumed it was the "white form" but when looking at it now I see it is actually something totally useless with contact info for baggage issues, refund services and contact centres,

Last time I tried customer relations they blew me off - I'll try them again and see if I have any better luck.
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Old Jun 1, 19, 5:00 pm
  #1860  
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Originally Posted by The Lev View Post
AC103 YYZ-YVR midway through the flight I noticed the lumbar portion of my seat had deflated. Brought it to the attention of the flight attendant serving my part of the plane and got puzzled "never heard of that before" response from her. Eventually went up and asked her for compensation form. She had no idea what I was talking about but a colleague pointed her to the SD who came by just before landing to apologize and give me a business card sized thing with Customer Relations info on it whom she said would offer me some sort of compensation. She acknowledged it happens all the time. I assumed it was the "white form" but when looking at it now I see it is actually something totally useless with contact info for baggage issues, refund services and contact centres,

Last time I tried customer relations they blew me off - I'll try them again and see if I have any better luck.
Yeah you got (un)intentionally duped.

First of all, never address this crap to an FA. Most (yep, generalizing - shame on me) have no clue - but the SDs tend to know. Just address it directly with the SD.

Secondly... And yes, it's the white form that used to be the green form... I think the green monster ate the green paper so they used white ones.

8.5" x 11" piece of paper
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