yyznomad

Of course. Speaking from my FOTSG experiences, I've lost in the YBYL game. But I have also seen GAs board and hand out J BPs to those in PE and Y, the most recent being a few months ago.As a 2MM, I can say though that I've lost the YBYL 100% when doing as such, all in the early years of eUps. It was only after I waited until the last possible moment that I haven't lost since. Maybe it's just pure coincidence, but my hunch says it's not and it remains prevalent during regular ops.

You did state your moral of your story, and for someone who is not a FOTSG, that says something, IMHO.

canadiancow

Here's a new one.

AmericanBovine and I were waitlisted for YHZ-YYZ a couple weeks ago. It went from a few seats available, to 3 to 2 to 1 to 0 on day of departure. And then either an SEMM or a SE on a higher fare class got on the list, so I was number 2. Not looking great.

Anyway, at T-45, I noticed that only 15 of 16 had checked in. My plan was to board last anyway, in case of misconnects or no shows, but that already looked good. The automated pass didn't upgrade number 1.

When they did final call, I walked up and asked if J had boarded full, because I was on the upgrade list. They said yes, and scanned my boarding pass. Then another GA said "oh wait there was a no-show".

They went to do an upgrade, and AmericanBovine was now number 1 on the list they were looking at, because you drop off when you board. Then they tried to upgrade me, and the system gave them an error.

Then they looked at the "full list", and noticed the original number 1 was above me. They said they would upgrade him, but they would get me if anything changed (like if he declined it).

I was happy with the procedure being followed.

However, the "error" interests me. I wonder if it would have been an error had they not boarded me (i.e. if I had pushed harder to find out about the J cabin before handing over my boarding pass).

I also have no doubt that, were it not for my persistence, number 1 would have been in Y, and a J seat would have flown empty.

Upgrading out of order may be impossible (at least without some serious overriding), but this is not the first case where seats have (or would have) flown empty with people still on the list.

So I think I stand by YBYL. If you want the upgrade, do not board until J has boarded full.

YOWCDNFF

I had somewhat of a similar experience YYZ-YOW roughly one week ago. App said at least one seat open, but GA insisted cabin was full and to board right away. As soon as I boarded, my name was no longer showing up in the app, but two individuals that were behind me in the listing got upgraded at the last minute...

canadiancow

Ugh if "booked" is less than "capacity" or "checked in" is less than "capacity", it's not full.

Sometimes things can happen last minute - I've certainly cancelled flights after upgrades have been processed. You can trust the numbers in the app. The only time they might be off is when there are GTEs (which can happen in J).

YOWCDNFF

Agreed on trusting # in the App. I had a situation in LAS roughly 6 months ago. It showed as " full" in the App, but only 23 of 24 checked-in. GA insisted that cabin was full, but after showing app data to GA, a supervisor overheard me, and all of a sudden, the opened seat actually showed up...

yyznomad

If the GA didn't pipe up to inform of a no-show, then what?
And "They said yes" as in the GA who scanned your BP?

If someone no-showed for J, how can J be considered boarded full when the question is asked and answered within less than five seconds (assuming a short time lag between your posed question, the scanning of your BP, and the other GA saying there was a no-show)?

canadiancow

There were two or three GAs.

Two of them said J had boarded full. One of those scanned my BP.

The other one then piped up and said there had been a no show.

They answered the question without actually checking.

skybluesea

yes exactly...rather robotic behavior, which Little SkyBlueSea and I experienced last week ex-YYZ enroute to YVR when I asked

lack of AC transparency will continue to bite as other airlines solve this more effectively...

in all fairness though, last year had Concierge come on board and provide me updated BP so dragged all my stuff from Y upto J

YMMV unfortunately...

DrunkCargo

I thought the AC App gives you load numbers? (Dunno as I removed it from my phone since that cross-eyed figure skater started showing up)

skybluesea

I consider having to check an APP for current status as upward delegation from service provider to client.

AC needs to become far more pro-active in all manner of customer service exchanges...

Like LH who recently brought me iPad on-board in J enroute from Seoul to Frankfurt, apologizing for not loading my bag in error, and if I would kindly fill in the details on the electronic form, they would deliver my bag directly to me in Rome, so I could by-pass the arrivals baggage hall/service counter which in Rome is a zoo at the best of times. On the form was option for extra LH points or cash rebate for my inconvenience.

Time and again AC drops the ball and ultimately boils down to poor service culture, lack of incentives to staff for getting the job done right the first time, and for CanadianCow, he should never ever have to go through what he did to deal with such a simple request.

footnote: and this year my money is definitely following my view of proper service offering really means...yes, will make SE again just because of my client's desired routings, yet, will do less than half my flying on AC this year...

DrunkCargo

Well, in Cow's case he helped #1 get his eUp, so in essence AC _was_ proactive in depending on other customers to help them out. =P In LH's case, I'm sure nobody from GA onwards was responsible for knowing your bag wasn't loaded. The system flashed a light and said "Do this for pax" (liability mitigation). I think AC is aiming for the same level of automation, because, culture is too much trouble... it's people and humans and stuff. One more generation I think

So we police the vendor, and the vendor polices everyone back... employees, customers: humans. It's a great relationship! Apps launch launch! Data is the weapon! pew pew?

canadiancow

Yes. It will tell you:
A: Capacity
B: Booked
C: Checked in

If B > A or C > A and you are on the list, do not board. When they process upgrades, C (and B, I think) increases. So until C == A, there is a seat available for you.

agjil

I few on LAX-YVR where my friend and I were waitlisted for an upgrade to J.
Our upgrades did not clear (and I didn't bother checking with the GAs in LAX when they started boarding), but upon arrival while I was chatting to one of the FAs I was told there were 2 no-shows in J, which resulted in 2 empty seats in the J cabin during the flight.
I have a feeling I got victimized by AC's YBYL policy...

yyznomad

And even if you did board last, you still could be victimized and sit in Y with two empty J seats (or J seats that went to other pax on the waitlist or not on the waitlist).

fin 645

This explains why it's impossible to upgrade at an intermediate stop on a flight with a through flight number - even if you missed an upgrade on the first leg and it's R9 on the next leg. The system will not allow a "boarded" passenger to upgrade, AC has apparently made it impossible to do a work around and GAs are so afraid of retribution, they will not do anything - even if a copay is involved.