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-   -   Air Canada moving to Amadeus; Communication issues with AP/AC post-migration result (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1870491-air-canada-moving-amadeus-communication-issues-ap-ac-post-migration-result.html)

YYC009 Oct 5, 17 7:40 am

Air Canada moving to Amadeus; Communication issues with AP/AC post-migration result
 
No, there won't be a Res IV...

They went with Amadeus instead of Sabre for the new passenger reservation system :(

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...649548693.html

D582 Oct 5, 17 8:10 am


Originally Posted by YYC009 (Post 28896354)
No, there won't be a Res IV...

They went with Amadeus instead of Sabre for the new passenger reservation system :(

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...649548693.html

Great news! It took them long enough to see the light.

The Lev Oct 5, 17 8:18 am

Hopefully this means that AC's reservation system will finally play nice with its major Star Alliance partners.

tcook052 Oct 5, 17 8:36 am

AC has been moving in Amadeus direction as of late (see this PR from earlier this year) so this announcement just cements that relationship.

Stranger Oct 5, 17 9:24 am


Originally Posted by The Lev (Post 28896437)
Hopefully this means that AC's reservation system will finally play nice with its major Star Alliance partners.

One can always hope....

canopus27 Oct 5, 17 10:54 am


Originally Posted by The Lev (Post 28896437)
Hopefully this means that AC's reservation system will finally play nice with its major Star Alliance partners.

Pretend I don't know anything about Amadeus (because, well, I don't).

Can anyone give me any details or examples as to how this will help improve the ... what, booking experience? More?

Stranger Oct 5, 17 11:04 am


Originally Posted by canopus27 (Post 28897004)
Pretend I don't know anything about Amadeus (because, well, I don't).

Can anyone give me any details or examples as to how this will help improve the ... what, booking experience? More?

For one thing, the booking reference might well end up the same as with LH, TP, SN and a few more.

But surely, communication with the same reservation system should be easier than between two different ones, no?

The Lev Oct 5, 17 11:06 am


Originally Posted by canopus27 (Post 28897004)
Pretend I don't know anything about Amadeus (because, well, I don't).

Can anyone give me any details or examples as to how this will help improve the ... what, booking experience? More?

I know about as much as you do about Amadeus, but i'm hoping if the airlines share the same platform it will eliminate some of the check-in problems I've had where AC can issue their own boarding pass but can't issue a connecting LH boarding pass or my Aeroplan number fails to carry over from my AC reservation onto the LH portion.

canopus27 Oct 5, 17 11:16 am


Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 28897048)
For one thing, the booking reference might well end up the same as with LH, TP, SN and a few more.

Interesting, thanks. That said, having a single booking ref across multiple airlines, feels like it's interesting to me as a computer geek -- and not overly beneficial to me as a travel geek.

What would be most beneficial to me, would be if I could start to have airlines like LH recognize my status (more than *G) and maybe even offer AC-like benefits (using e-upgrades on LH flights, etc). However, I've always assumed that the reasons that was not done today, were more about business decisions, and less about technical limitations of the underlying systems. Was I wrong?


But surely, communication with the same reservation system should be easier than between two different ones, no?
Yes, I assume so. But what then? I can already book LH flights on ac.com, I can check bags all the way through spanning airlines ... I'm not trying to be dismissive or confrontational, I just honestly don't understand what might start to change that would improve my travel experience.

Stranger Oct 5, 17 11:21 am


Originally Posted by canopus27 (Post 28897100)
Interesting, thanks. That said, having a single booking ref across multiple airlines, feels like it's interesting to me as a computer geek -- and not overly beneficial to me as a travel geek.

Not quite so.

Right now, you have legs on LH, or SN, for instance, you cannot book a seat without getting the Amadeus booking reference from AC.

Or, if something goes wrong, you cannot check the leg on LH etc. Just happened to us last month. Got rebooked after missing a connection. Remainder of the LH and SN flights were totally messed up. Good that I had the Amadeus booknig ref so I could check and found the next leg had dropped in a black hole.


What would be most beneficial to me, would be if I could start to have airlines like LH recognize my status (more than *G)
Should be the caee now and normally it is. But again lately I had two instances when I had to get my AE number added in the lounge. With LH and SN.


and maybe even offer AC-like benefits (using e-upgrades on LH flights, etc). However, I've always assumed that the reasons that was not done today, were more about business decisions, and less about technical limitations of the underlying systems. Was I wrong?
Different story. Might make these things easier, but these are not really reservation system issues. LH and UA do these things even though UA does not use Amadeus.

bawm Oct 5, 17 1:47 pm

Air Canada moving to Amadeus
 
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2017...mer-experience


MADRID and MONTREAL, Oct. 5, 2017 /CNW Telbec/ - Forward-thinking airlines understand that the critical combination of next-generation airline IT systems, along with the best global distribution capabilities and air travel content, are necessary to serve their customers and operate their business successfully.

Air Canada partners with Amadeus to support international network and improvements to customer experience (CNW Group/Air Canada)

Under a new agreement announced today between Amadeus and Air Canada, Canada's largest airline is poised to harness the best of both in support of its business strategy to enhance customer experience, improve profitability and operational performance in support of its growing international network.

Air Canada has signed for the full Amadeus Altéa Suite passenger service system (PSS) including reservations, inventory, and departure control solutions. The Amadeus Altéa Suite, once fully implemented, will enable Air Canada to enhance customer experience by delivering more consistent and personalized customer service based on individual customer preferences and attributes, pursue additional revenue generating opportunities, and improve operational efficiency. To support Air Canada's international network, the Altéa Suite will help Air Canada achieve closer integration with its codeshare partners and within the Star Alliance – more than two thirds of which are also Altéa carriers.

In addition to these solutions, the carrier will implement a range of other Amadeus IT solutions such as Anytime Merchandising, Customer Experience Management, Payments, Revenue Integrity, Group Management and Passenger Recovery. With the implementation of Amadeus Anytime Merchandising, Air Canada will be able to propose personalized offers according to individual preferences. The combination of the Altéa Suite and Amadeus Anytime Merchandising will, in particular, ensure that Air Canada is well equipped to address evolving industry initiatives such as IATA's New Distribution Capability (NDC).

At the same time, the renewed multi-year distribution agreement, signed in parallel to the Altéa Suite agreement, supports Air Canada's focus on delivering a consistent brand and customer experience across channels, a key aspect of its international growth. Amadeus users worldwide will be able to access Air Canada's industry-leading customizable fare products and availability via the Amadeus global distribution system, as well as the carrier's ancillary offerings.

Today, Amadeus travel agencies can seamlessly book Air Canada's full range of branded fares and select ancillary services, such as Preferred and Advance seat options. Future end-to-end connectivity will also enable integration of the airline's Corporate Rewards, Flight Pass and dynamic pricing offers.

"This new agreement with Amadeus marks the evolution of what has been a long, successful and strategic partnership. We see the benefits of having a fully integrated IT and distribution strategy which brings the strongest distribution capabilities as well as next-generation airline IT services to our customers worldwide," said Lucie Guillemette, Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer, Air Canada. "This agreement supports Air Canada's business strategy for delivering a more personalized travel experience to improve customer service across all touchpoints to support and improve the profitability of our international expansion and improving how we sell, distribute and deliver our products and services. It will enable us to better integrate our systems with our codeshare and Star Alliance partners."

"With Amadeus as its partner, Air Canada will ultimately have in place a modern, flexible community-based IT platform, other business-critical technology solutions, and unsurpassed distribution of its fares and content around the world," said Julia Sattel, Senior Vice President, Airlines, Amadeus. "The benefits of using the Altéa platform extend well beyond just the airline's operations. Amadeus-connected travel agents have the unique advantage of instant visibility to any changes affecting an Altéa airline booking, meaning they can better service their customers. Importantly, for Amadeus, this agreement also marks an important milestone for us in terms of our continued growth and expansion in North America in particular, a region which continues to be strategically crucial for the whole company."

Air Canada is targeting full Altéa Suite implementation in 2019. The renewed distribution agreement between Amadeus and Air Canada is effective immediately.

As of the first half 2017, 199 customers had contracted either of the Amadeus Passenger Service Systems (Altéa or New Skies) and 189 had implemented either of Altéa or New Skies.

InTheAirGuy Oct 5, 17 2:39 pm

https://anonimag.es/i/ddbd838dbbdb36...b33a7b3319.jpg

canadiancow Oct 5, 17 2:50 pm

Interesting to see how this will play out.

Jebby_ca Oct 5, 17 2:54 pm


Originally Posted by canadiancow (Post 28897937)
Interesting to see how this will play out.

This thread? or Amadeus? :p

tcook052 Oct 5, 17 3:07 pm

Please note some posts have been moved, deleted and threads merged for topic continuity.

tcook052
AC forum Mod.

Bohemian1 Oct 5, 17 5:41 pm

While I think this is good in the long term, I expect there is going to be some serious pain as their agents learn how to use this. A lot of their little 'tricks' will have to be relearned or discarded.

Jasper2009 Oct 5, 17 6:58 pm


Originally Posted by Bohemian1 (Post 28898504)
While I think this is good in the long term, I expect there is going to be some serious pain as their agents learn how to use this. A lot of their little 'tricks' will have to be relearned or discarded.

So true.

I'll miss the following conversations:

me: I'd like to book AC123 followed by LH456 in booking class Q."
agent: There's no availability in booking class Q."
me: I'm pretty sure there is. I'm looking at the availability released by LH."
agent: Ok, let me walk over to the Amadeus computer and double-check."
....
agent: You're right, sorry about that. Let's manually request that space."
(all ticketed within 5min)

Transpacificflyer Oct 5, 17 9:42 pm


Originally Posted by canopus27 (Post 28897004)
Pretend I don't know anything about Amadeus (because, well, I don't).
Can anyone give me any details or examples as to how this will help improve the ... what, booking experience? More?

I believe part of the answer is in the AC press release;

To support Air Canada's international network, the Altéa Suite will help Air Canada achieve closer integration with its codeshare partners and within the Star Alliance – more than two thirds of which are also Altéa carriers.

The other components are;
- Altea most likely offers the languages and support network AC needs to further its growth in new foreign markets.
- Revenue opportunity- Altea most likely makes it easier to charge and collect additional fees for services and options.

daniellam Oct 6, 17 12:28 am


Originally Posted by Bohemian1 (Post 28898504)
While I think this is good in the long term, I expect there is going to be some serious pain as their agents learn how to use this. A lot of their little 'tricks' will have to be relearned or discarded.

Amadeus Altea Departure Control (the check in side of the system) is very easy to use. It has a nice graphical point and click interface.

When CX first started using a few years ago, I was checking in for a HKG-LAX flight on CX and asked the CX agent to check my bag through a LAX-YVR flight on AC.

According to the agent, he had no training on how to do it at all! He somehow was able to easily go through the menus and choose the right options.

Here is a video as to what the system (check-in side) looks like:


daniellam Oct 6, 17 12:56 am

Here are a couple more videos (promotional videos from Amadeus):

Looks like that Amadeus may have been trying to sell their system to UA as well (since you can see sample flights like SFO-IAH in the promotional video)

They even have a function where several airlines using the same system can be checked in by the same agent. Eg. AC handling check-in for LH and LX departing at the same airport!






YYC009 Oct 6, 17 6:23 am

I still like Sabre more.

yscleo Oct 6, 17 8:43 am


Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer (Post 28899023)
To support Air Canada's international network, the Altéa Suite will help Air Canada achieve closer integration with its codeshare partners and within the Star Alliance – more than two thirds of which are also Altéa carriers.

The other components are;
- Altea most likely offers the languages and support network AC needs to further its growth in new foreign markets.
- Revenue opportunity- Altea most likely makes it easier to charge and collect additional fees for services and options.

This last piece caught my eyes. Get ready for more charges and fees.

margarita girl Oct 6, 17 8:43 am

This is awesome news! I'll now be able to track flight changes on My Flights app, since AC is terrible at letting you know about schedule changes.

My Flights will even notify you about aircraft change, seat change, special meal change, etc. ^ Unfortunately, it only works with Amadeus bookings.

Plumber Oct 6, 17 8:48 am

I agree this is good news!

Its about time. This should make it easier for us as consumers to have better access to information and hopefully will align better through the Star Alliance network.

sbm12 Oct 6, 17 8:51 am


Originally Posted by canopus27 (Post 28897100)
However, I've always assumed that the reasons that was not done today, were more about business decisions, and less about technical limitations of the underlying systems. Was I wrong?

Nope. Those are mostly business decisions. UA/LH managed to implement electronic upgrade requests across disparate systems because it was good for business.

Originally Posted by canopus27 (Post 28897100)
I just honestly don't understand what might start to change that would improve my travel experience.

Nothing.

Originally Posted by YYC009 (Post 28899915)
I still like Sabre more.

This is a silly, irrational position for a consumer. The selection of PSS (within the pool of the major players) means so very little to the vast majority of travelers most of the time.

daniellam Oct 6, 17 12:42 pm


Originally Posted by YYC009 (Post 28899915)
I still like Sabre more.

I don't think any other *A carrier uses Sabre. With the majority of *A carriers using Amadeus, it makes sense for AC to switch to it as well.

Also, with Air Canada's new frequent flyer program starting in 2020 (Amadeus go live expected in 2019), this would reduce the amount of "phantom" partner award availability issues as the majority of the partners are all under the same system.

In addition, with Amadeus, everything is "under one roof". Amadeus has the concept of a unified PNR (booking reference). For bookings that involve multiple carriers (eg. LH, SQ, BR, NH) that are hosted in Amadeus only ONE Amadeus booking reference is used. Example: If an LH agent put a comment into a PNR that also has BR segments, a BR agent will also see the comment (assuming that viewership to the comment is not restricted by LH). When IRROPs occur, it is much easier to rebook passengers (including missed flights to other carriers also hosted on the same system). Also, in stations where a carrier has limited presence, they can have another carrier (also using Amadeus) handle ground functions such as check-in and boarding for them! All the agents at the other carrier has to do is sign in to Amadeus as they normally do and select the flight for that other carrier (provided access is given by the other carrier).

On the other hand, with Sabre, they have a "multiple sandbox" concept. Each carrier hosted in Sabre has its own sandbox (or partition). This functions as if each carrier has their own individual system. For a booking that involves multiple Sabre carriers (eg. AA, PR, LA, AS), a different PNR in each sandbox is created. For example, in a booking that contains AS and PR segments: AS would have its own PNR in the AS partition, while PR would have another in its partition. Any comments put in by an AS agent will not be viewable by the PR agent even if no viewership restriction is added. This is because they function as separate systems.

drgmobile Oct 6, 17 1:39 pm

Will this system be able to do the following? If so, yay!

1) Remember my credit card number
2) Remember by passport and Nexus information
3) Avoid the need for me to copy and paste my locator numbers within Air Canada's own systems when I am logged in with my Aeroplan/frequent flyer number (i.e. on the mobile app or for upgrades)
4) Allow me to select seats when flying on Star Alliance metal on a code share

canadiancow Oct 6, 17 2:28 pm


Originally Posted by drgmobile (Post 28901440)
Will this system be able to do the following? If so, yay!

1) Remember my credit card number
2) Remember by passport and Nexus information
3) Avoid the need for me to copy and paste my locator numbers within Air Canada's own systems when I am logged in with my Aeroplan/frequent flyer number (i.e. on the mobile app or for upgrades)
4) Allow me to select seats when flying on Star Alliance metal on a code share

1/2/3 are already supported by AC mobile+.

4 will be possible if the other airline uses Amadeus.

Stranger Oct 6, 17 2:42 pm


Originally Posted by drgmobile (Post 28901440)
Will this system be able to do the following? If so, yay!

1) Remember my credit card number

Not necessarily a good idea. Do you trust them with the information?


2) Remember by passport and Nexus information
3) Avoid the need for me to copy and paste my locator numbers within Air Canada's own systems when I am logged in with my Aeroplan/frequent flyer number (i.e. on the mobile app or for upgrades)
aircanada.com already does that, under certain conditions.

Passport and nexus: only for a specific booking but not across bookings. Which is probably a good compromise. Again, not sure I trust them enough to want them to store the information.

Booking reference: it does as long as the booking was made on the web site. It would be nice if this included all bookings on 014 with the aeroplan number. Including Aeroplan and OTAs.



4) Allow me to select seats when flying on Star Alliance metal on a code share
That will be only if the other airline allows seat selection for the fare you purchase.

canadiancow Oct 6, 17 2:46 pm


Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 28901688)
Passport and nexus: only for a specific booking but not across bookings. Which is probably a good compromise. Again, not sure I trust them enough to want them to store the information.

If you do everything on mobile, it remembers it all, forever.

I never have to type in the information.

Stranger Oct 6, 17 2:48 pm


Originally Posted by canadiancow (Post 28901704)
If you do everything on mobile, it remembers it all, forever.

I never have to type in the information.

But is that a good thing?

canadiancow Oct 6, 17 3:00 pm


Originally Posted by Stranger (Post 28901712)
But is that a good thing?

There are benefits and drawbacks. The former are obvious, and you've outlined the latter :p

zrh2yvr Oct 6, 17 4:17 pm

One difference between RES III and Amadeus is the identification of your "Status" for the FQTV.

In RES III - The PNR identifies your status on booking date - and that can carry through until the FQTV is refreshed if needed at a later date. However - this does not really matter because DCS will refresh the status when the flight loads 48-72 hours out.

However - Amadeus and its integrated DCS platform are taking status from booking date and not refreshing when the flight is loaded in DCS. I guess in general - this can only work to your advantage because - - if your status got lowered - - you won't tell them but you can always refresh the FQTV at checkin to get the correct status.

I know this becauas Mrs ZRH2YVR went from *G to *S on March 1 of this year - but all the bookings we made before March 1 still have her as Gold on her checking - - which allows her all the *G benefits and lounge access. . . .

On the way up a few years ago when she went from *S to *G - we had to go in and remove the Aeroplan number and then add it back again to refresh the status at departure.

That is going to create nightmares. . . (then again AC reads this so they will figure out a way to fix this).

Adam Smith Oct 7, 17 1:11 pm


Originally Posted by zrh2yvr (Post 28902005)
That is going to create nightmares. . . (then again AC reads this so they will figure out a way to fix this).

Have they made the website work with Chrome? Or work in general?

There are so many IT issues with AC that are posted here and never addressed, so it's possible that they'll fix this, or they might not. I wouldn't count on it.

Stranger Oct 7, 17 4:40 pm


Originally Posted by zrh2yvr (Post 28902005)
That is going to create nightmares. . . (then again AC reads this so they will figure out a way to fix this).

To whom? Half a dozen FT nutcases who figured this out? You think AC will care?

I guess I don't really care either BTW. My status never seems to change. Same for more than 15 years...

canopus27 Aug 15, 18 6:16 am

I'm surprised that there's been so little discussion about this change; everyone is very focused on the big switch from Aeroplan in 2020, but the Amadeus change is happening a full year before then (the release says 2019, although I can't find an exact date mentioned anywhere).

As I understand it, Amadeus will be the system of record for seat inventory. That either means that there will be a huge data migration action at some point, moments before the entire system goes live .... or they will start booking all flights beyond a certain date, directly in Amadeus when they sell them - which could be very soon now. Either way, we're likely just 12 months away from a huge switch.

Whether or not Amadeus will deliver any improvements to the customer experience, I'm both curious and terrified what the transition process will look like. I can't imagine that this will be completely seamless.

YYT82 Aug 15, 18 6:27 am


Originally Posted by canopus27 (Post 30084699)
I'm surprised that there's been so little discussion about this change; everyone is very focused on the big switch from Aeroplan in 2020, but the Amadeus change is happening a full year before then (the release says 2019, although I can't find an exact date mentioned anywhere).

As I understand it, Amadeus will be the system of record for seat inventory. That either means that there will be a huge data migration action at some point, moments before the entire system goes live .... or they will start booking all flights beyond a certain date, directly in Amadeus when they sell them - which could be very soon now. Either way, we're likely just 12 months away from a huge switch.

Whether or not Amadeus will deliver any improvements to the customer experience, I'm both curious and terrified what the transition process will look like. I can't imagine that this will be completely seamless.

The data migration could be an excellent opportunity for FF whose reservations are "lost" in the process, if you know what I mean. :D

YUL-Insider Aug 15, 18 7:18 am


Originally Posted by YYT82 (Post 30084727)
The data migration could be an excellent opportunity for FF whose reservations are "lost" in the process, if you know what I mean. :D

Jokes aside. Doesn't this mean that Aeroplan also needs to switch to Amadeus? Are Aeroplan and Air Canada working together on this migration of data and change of reservation system? It makes the battle on the FF side look even more interesting.

24left Aug 15, 18 9:29 am

I was waiting at the gate in YQB recently, and saw small blue tags with bar codes sticking/attached to the back of the Dell computers at the desks where the gate agents sit. Are these related to the overall switch to Amadeus?

RangerNS Aug 15, 18 9:31 am


Originally Posted by 24left (Post 30085285)
I was waiting at the gate in YQB recently, and saw small blue tags with bar codes sticking/attached to the back of the Dell computers at the desks where the gate agents sit. Are these related to the overall switch to Amadeus?

I'd assume not. Aren't most of the gate computers actually owned/managed by the airport? AC/Amadeus is just another VDI then AC/Legacy.


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