The smallest state

Understood!

There was a guy on the Delta boards who flew DFW-NYC-PAR-HOU-DAL on a one way ticket with a long "layover" in Paris. When Delta found out they banned the event happening again but I thought it was awesome.

Clipper801

Flew YYZ-YOW recently (AC452). There was no I or X redemption seat available so I bought a Tango.

When the aircraft door closed, there were 8 empty J seats and the economy cabin was less than 3/4 full. Many empty seats.

Aeroplan: You are digging your own grave.

There is nothing more irritating than seeing dozens of empty seats on the flight and yet there was nothing available for redemption.

Min. bid for upgrade was $95 and LMU was being flogged at $144/person. There was only 1 passenger in the J cabin of the E175 when the door closed. Obviously, there was at most 1 taker of those ridiculous prices.

I am beginning to wonder whether it's AC really not releasing any seat to Aeroplan or Aeroplan is filtering the availability to prevent redemption by its members or both.

Stranger

That's clearly AC. They have no interest in selling AE more seats than they contractually have to at the price that AE pays them.

So no reason to find this infuriating. Simply par of the logic whereby AC wnts a divorce. Out of a terrible deal.

Clipper801

Between now and 2020 when AC will have its own FF programme, Aeroplan is still the only game in town if one wants any sort of Altitude status.

So one can get Altitude status and collects points that one could not use. Great plan.

Stranger

Only as miles and rewards are concerned. Which is why they have priority rewards that come with status.

And status is entirely an altitude thing.

Not quite since with status one can go beyond regular AE inventory.

canadiancow

Not to mention that roughly half my reward trips have no AC metal in them at all.

It's quite easy to use Aeroplan miles, even without status.

Clipper801

Unless one is SE with IKK, one's choice from YYZ to YOW is pretty limited. In fact, one's choice to many destinations is extremely limited. YYZ-YHZ, YVR-YYJ, YYC-YUL, just to name a few.

Which other *A airline flies from YYZ to YOW?

Clipper801

You are talking about SE.

For anyone 75E and lower, priority rewards come with a hefty premium.

How about paying 500,000 points for a J reward ticket from YYZ to CDG?

Even before AC's announcement to end its relationship with Aeroplan, Aeroplan was already digging its own grave and was arranging for its own funeral.

Stranger

Which is likely the only status level that AC cares about.

In constant dollars, SEs probably don't spend much more than what Elites spent back when the SE level was introduced, some time around 2000. Or at least, when the Elite level was, which was then the highest status.

pitz

What were they trying to sell the next incremental seat for? A business-heavy route like YYZ-YOW (most everyone else would take the train or drive if on a short-notice trip) typically would command some pretty steep walk-up fares. The algorithm has to balance the probability of selling a seat versus someone swapping out a revenue reservation for a reward redemption.

Were you willing to pay for a seat that you needed or not? The whole idea of AP, whether run by AC, or outsourced to Aimia/AP, is that people aren't using AP redemptions to replace revenue tickets. This means that redemption availability must be unpredictable, it must be on flights for which there is little probability of ever selling most tickets, and it must be at times of day in which business travel is unlikely. The original "aim" of AP wasn't to provide an effective discount on travel costs, but rather, to give AC customers a free flight here and there that would be used on purely discretionary travel. Travel that would not occur if not for the AP points and free travel being available.

The aberration of credit cards, etc., being able to accumulate large number of points and actually access such inventory has caused the program to drift far from its original intent.

Sounds like an argument for a reconfiguration of the E175 cabin if that's taking place on a widespread basis.

AC does the minimum it is required per its contract with Aimia/AP.

ACE's shareholders collected what, $800M+ (??) out of the AP spinoff. I don't think it was a particularly terrible deal. AC might be riding high right now, but as the economy turns against the airlines, as it inevitably will, AP will be valuable in putting at least some bums into the seats and maintaining the perception of low demand slack. I personally doubt the 'divorce' ends up happening. There's just too much brand equity that AC has built up over the years through the AP program.

Stranger

It *was* not. For ACE. With no long term interests. It is a terrible deal for AC today.

About filling up seats, nothing that can't be done by the new in-house program. Real issue is how little AE pays for seats and how cheap they sell too many miles to third parties. AC can repatriate the profit, and offer a smaller number of seats to their true FFs and sell quite a bit less miles at a comparably higher price to select partners. The divorce will happen.

Add to that the negatives associated with the Aeroplan brand.

canadiancow

AC does "at least" the minimum.

There are certainly times where they release extra seats because flights are empty, but as you said, they can't always do it, or people would know not to buy tickets on empty flights.

Bohemian1

I think this is a key point that gets lost in a lot of airline loyalty program discussions/debates. Before the advent of affinity credit cards, this truly was all about frequent flyers.

But that was also back in the day with 'simple' fare structures like Y/J/F, few (if any) codeshares and when dinosaurs ruled the earth.

Maybe AC/AE is an extreme case of a bifurcated program, but almost all airlines have snuck in ways to tease apart points versus revenue.

Loyalty programs have always been about getting something for nothing. They get your business and you get (next to) nothing. Just the way it is.

24left

The mucho money AC/Aeroplan and other airlines made and still make from their various cc partnerships is a legal drug addiction.

We certainly understand why these partnerships were formed. Happy are all those people who don't necessarily pay to fly AC (or do so minimally), but churn cards and enjoy luxurious redemptions.

Now that these $$$ relationships between airlines and banks exist, I don't see the airlines giving up that coin..

But I know many people who are none to happy about the impact it has on a number of things including many lounges being overrun with large numbers of the cc crowd. Sundays in the YYZ International MLL has turned into a McDs.

Whatev.

Clipper801

YQB-YYZ Economy (X) redemption. 1st week of October 2018. At nearly one year out, no availability between Sept. 28 to Oct. 5, and Oct. 8 to 10. There are about 10 direct flights plus probably 10 more via YUL each day. Aeroplan still wants us to collect its points? They are dreaming in technicolour. I look forward to attending the funeral.