MSPeconomist

Even basic school French should be enough to write or translate this message. It's not a novel or a philosophical essay.

24left

This is Canada. There is no such thing as using the word "simple" when it comes to language, and especially translation of anything in the two Official Languages.

Back to grandma and her poorly planned travel adventure.....

MSPeconomist

What's wrong with "Classe d'affaires seulement"?

KenHamer

So passengers who upgrade should use the Y lav?

In any case it seems to me that everyone is missing the obvious solution - the child should have peed in the aisle.


Anyways, I find sitting next to a toddler much more enjoyable than most adults.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...light=ft%3Atng

Gig103

Sorry grandma, some of us are paying double-to-triple to sit in business class, and we don't want a pee-soaked kiddo traipsing up and down the aisle. The first time it was urgent and the FA was nice enough to accommodate you. But for Heaven's sake, she's three years old, you should be planning better and if necessary, have her wear a Pull-Up.

flyquiet

Kids learn by practising. After the first potty excursion to J, the kid has learned a new experience, and what kids do with new experiences is they repeat them to make sure they have it down. She probably got indulgent praise for doing it. Kids do not go to the J lav and say to themselves, "that was an exception to the normal procedure". They say, "I did a new thing, now let's see if I can repeat my success." If on the first occasion, the child had been shown how to urinate into a coffee pot, she would probably have accepted that at total face value as what one does, and would have done that on the second occasion and subsequently. Success is fun and habit forming, potentially explaining subsequent "urinary urgency". The child is blameless as she has been "lav trained" by the adult to use the posh lav.

However, from the adult's perspective (the family relationship does sound more maternal in a practical sense - when my daughter was the age of this girl, I was not much younger than the complainant), not only was this a repeated incursion, based on the adult's reported pre-travel conversation with the TA, it sounds premeditated. At the time of booking, she was ALREADY thinking about using the bathroom. That contradicts the premise that it's been a while since she parented young children and had no idea it could be an issue.

She had a PLAN to use the forward lav. She likely directed the child to the forward lav on the first occasion and felt entitled to use it.

Beyond that, I was not entirely jesting that this might be long-game grifting to get the refund by deliberately provoking exactly what happened, and she is not above having the child soil herself and the aircraft to get it. I realize that sounds craven, but it's craven to identify a minor child in the news media in connection with the events as described.

The FA did not make one bad decision in isolation. It was a decision with unfortunate outcome but the decision was made in the context of the adult-child duo making repeated excursions. The FA had no means to know if it was legitimate urinary urgency or just the child practicing a new skill. It's not like the kid is doing a colonoscopy prep and has foreseeable frequent toileting needs from the FA perspective. Based on cumulative past experience flying thousands of adults and children on the route, the FA might reasonably have done the math and said well, the kid's peed twice in an hour and has had nothing to drink, so what are the odds it's a pee-mergency? It's time to nip this in the bud. Also, counterfactually, if the adult had said "my gosh, I am so sorry to do this again but the kid just guzzled a 26 ounce red bull I had in my purse and now we can't get past the cart", I believe the FA would have responded differently than to a nonchalant third entitled excursion to J that seemed like they were turning the J lav into their personal McPlayland.

ylwae

I'm surprised the flight attendant actually barred a Y passenger from the J lav. I can't remember the last domestic flight I was on where there wasn't a steady procession of Y passengers--of all ages and physical abilities--flinging the curtain aside and making their way to the J lav, with the FA/SD smiling benignly as they did so.

Low Roller

I've obviously been following this thread for too long because I'm starting to see ads for pull-ups!

mapleg

A lot of posters mention that child was 3. In fact, the child was 2.

From the CBC Article:

her granddaughter, who's almost three years old,


Let's get serious. A 2 year old on a long flight. Most parents would have a "just in case" bag for a 2 hour visit to a shopping mall or grocery store.

quantumofforce

Can confirm the "just in case" bag for grocery store trips.

Heck, just an outing to the park across the street I wear my cargo shorts so I can have a spare diaper on the one side pocket and wipes on the other.

tcook052

Which could mean 2 years, 10 months, and 3 weeks which almost 3 as stated.

Yes but do most grandparents?

ffsim

I've refrained from chiming in because these threads tend to become elitist love-ins where the thrashing of "the entitled" and children is rampant.

But you've just asked the most relevant question of the whole thread. For someone who had the foresight to ask for seats near a lav, the grandmother was woefully unprepared with even the bare essentials of taking a 2-or-3-year-old out of the house. Maybe the little girl's parents should've said something, maybe the grandmother should've known. All that's certain is it should not have come to this. At least 2 adults were involved in scenario where a toddler's basic bodily functions were ignored.

Oh, and many thanks to @quantumofforce for interjecting some common sense around here.

smallmj

It my experience, it depends on explicit instructions from the parents. Though my parents/inlaws were in their late 50s and 60s when my kids were that age. This grandmother is the same age as me, so procedures should be a little fresher.

But each kid is different, so it really depends on the primary care givers (usually the parents) to give explicit instructions to the other caregivers like grandparents.

My kids were very sound sleepers, and wouldn't wake in the night to go. So for two years after they were trained we were sure to tell everyone that they stayed with not to give them anything to drink after supper.

BRAISKI

Issues never end…

First
- It’s one thing for a bunch of Y PAX using the J lavatories and it’s another thing to assists a child to use it, of course everyone will argue this.
- Now because of this issue, this cost the airline more, cleaning a damn pee in the seat that’s if they do or just spray a can of disinfectant and fabreeze.

Second
- She could have asked for a bunch of blankets so the kid can sit on a “dry” seat!

- Doesn’t matter if she is potty trained, she’s a toddler and accidents happen! Long flights/rides/drives/trips are not kid friendly! There’s no exclusive bathroom, even if she was a J PAX and if all the lavatories are being used, a toddler can only hold for so long, sometimes 1min is too long the moment they say they need to go! Not flown with a child for 15yrs?!?! Nothing has changed in the past 1500 yrs! A toddler will need to go anytime on a long trip! Plus they are messy they could have spilled water/milk/food on their clothes and you'd still need to change them.
- Why didn't the toddler's parent/s told the grandmother to make sure you have this and that!


All of these "issues" are POOR excuses!

So my toddler (2.5yrs) flew recently (sitting in PY) and is potty trained and was wearing a diaper during the 8hr flight because we know that accidents happen! The lavatory is in front and just because it is, doesn’t matter because it could be in use! Plus there is always a "baby/toddler bag". COMMON sense seems to be a rarity indeed!

Proudelitist

Technically, that's "Moving the goal posts"