Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Air Canada | Aeroplan
Reload this Page >

Another CBC article : granddaughter forced to sit in her own pee

Another CBC article : granddaughter forced to sit in her own pee

Old Jun 22, 2017, 11:44 am
  #151  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Halifax
Programs: AC SE100K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum Elite. NEXUS
Posts: 4,527
Originally Posted by Sunny Day
"Can I come into your house, grab some food and drink, and use the bathroom?"

That J cabin is not your house.
Nope, it is Air Canada's "house", and Air Canada restricts access to people who have paid to be there. One of the reason why people pay to be there is because of that restriction.

The FA was nice, twice, to the entitled and poorly prepared grandma.
RangerNS is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 11:55 am
  #152  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canada
Programs: Marriott Plat; Air Canada E75K; Westjet Platinum
Posts: 1,161
No it seems to me on this forum that J passengers seem to have more problem with this than Air Canada. How is a child walking by you to a lav disturbing you? What is so distasteful about sharing a toilet with a Y passenger?
Sunny Day is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 12:05 pm
  #153  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: air miles
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by Sunny Day
I don't think when 150 people are cramped into a small confined metal box for 4 + hours together, we should be so hung up about letting your fellow passengers use the business lav. Seriously. Where is your humanity? It is only a toilet !!! Let't back this up a bit and think how crazy some of these comments are, never mind this is a child. Do you remember? you were once a child.

I was on a A321 in Y this week, full plane, 3 Lavs for all of Y to use. One of them was out of service for the whole 4 hour flight. That left 2 Lavs for all the Y passengers. The bathroom line ups were nonstop. The chaos between food carts, buy on board, drink service, garbage collection, toddlers walking. If people need to go, it is not the end of world for some of your fellow human beings to share a toilet with you.
If grandma was advised at least one time on her 3 previous trips to the lavatory that she could not use the biz class lavatory than that should be enough for her to realize she should be using the lav in the rear, regardless of any error made by her travel agent. Why is it ok to willfully disobey the FA? I am willing to bet that grandma was denied access to the lavatory on the last attempt because the FA was frustrated at having to repeat herself to grandma.
JustSomeGuy1978 is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 12:06 pm
  #154  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
Originally Posted by Sunny Day
No it seems to me on this forum that J passengers seem to have more problem with this than Air Canada. How is a child walking by you to a lav disturbing you? What is so distasteful about sharing a toilet with a Y passenger?
Did you read the entire thread?

Did you read any of the 700+ comments on the CBC site for the original article?

If you did, you'll find no one had an issue with young Ruby.

Everyone had an issue with Grandma Osmond. It seems that she may have planned her strategy all along - based on her own comments in the CBC article.

She also admits to not planning properly and having the foresight to consider that it might be wise to have extra pull-ups/diapers, change of clothes etc.


You may not like your perception here that there is a sense of entitlement, but I would suggest, as others have upthread, that you've missed the point and it isn't about depriving non-J pax of using the J lavs.

You might not like the fact that J pax pay more to sit in an exclusive cabin. That is what AC and other airlines offer.

I fly plenty of transcon Y. I know the rules and unless a FA specifically directs any of us to use another lav for whatever reason (Y is out of service etc), I am quite sure we will use the lavs in the cabin in which we are seated.


Debate this all you want.

Airlines sell F. Airlines sell J. Airlines sell misery in the back of the bus. If you listen to the words of airline execs, they are just providing what pax are willing to buy.

Period.
.

Last edited by 24left; Jun 22, 2017 at 12:14 pm Reason: spelling
24left is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 1:04 pm
  #155  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
Originally Posted by Sunny Day
"Can I come into your house, grab some food and drink, and use the bathroom?"

That J cabin is not your house. You get a seat in J flying from A to B. Again, this child is not asking to eat your caviar or drink your champagne. That toilet is not yours.
Why do you get the draw the line between what part of the J experience is part of what a J ticket buys you vs. what part isn't?

And ownership is irrelevant. By your logic, if I book a single room in a hotel, should I be allowed to just walk into the Presidential Suite and tell its occupant that (s)he doesn't own the room; the hotel does?

Originally Posted by Sunny Day
How is a child walking by using the Lav "disturbing you"? If she does not talk to you, how is she disturbing you? Were you not once a child?
People pay more money to fly in a smaller, quieter, more exclusive cabin. Maybe they need the peace and quiet to do work, or maybe they just want to feel special. Again, they paid for it so it's their prerogative. If they don't want to deal with Y passengers walking by them all the time, I think that's understandable.

Originally Posted by Sunny Day
Would you have a problem if there is only one toilet that is working in Y for 100 people back there and some of them have to come up to use the Lav in J?
I'll repeat my post from earlier:

Originally Posted by capedreamer
FWIW, I strongly support the curtain + sign approach. Simple, unobtrusive, unobjectionable.

Will an exception still be made from time to time for real emergencies? Sure, and I have no issues with that.

My frustration is when carriers like AC don't announce or enforce anything in this regard consistently. Then you tend to see one person come up front, followed by another, and then another... Do I blame those pax? Not at all. I blame the airline / crew for not setting expectations upfront.
Originally Posted by Sunny Day
When I gave up my Plus seat for that mom and son, instead of feeling "why should I give up my seat, if they want to be seated together, darn it, they should pay for it". I got off the plane feeling happy and positive. Again I am not advocating J passengers to give up their seats but show some humanity when it comes to sharing your toilet.
That was your decision to make and good for you! But what's your point? Everyone should be more like you?
capedreamer is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 3:57 pm
  #156  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AC E35K, NEXUS
Posts: 4,368
Originally Posted by Sunny Day
It is only a toilet !!! Let't back this up a bit and think how crazy some of these comments are, never mind this is a child. Do you remember? you were once a child. <snip> If people need to go, it is not the end of world for some of your fellow human beings to share a toilet with you.
Originally Posted by 24left
Did you read the entire thread?

Did you read any of the 700+ comments on the CBC site for the original article?

If you did, you'll find no one had an issue with young Ruby.

Everyone had an issue with Grandma Osmond. It seems that she may have planned her strategy all along - based on her own comments in the CBC article.
Exactly. I have difficulty calling someone that much younger than me "Grandma", but the character I call "the adult party" seems clearly to have had a premeditation of at least using that lav, if not grifting her way into a compensation claim. The choice to require the J lav was not the child's. The adult created the condition under which the child had no knowledge or expectation that there was any toilet else other than that specific lav. To be honest, we only have the adult's word that the child needed to go at that time, or even that the child actually urinated on the seat. For all we know, the adult poured her beverage there. Parties perceived to have deep pockets see lots of grifting.
flyquiet is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 4:42 pm
  #157  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Providence RI
Programs: American Exec Plat, Hyatt Refugeeist, Marriot Gold, Air Canada Cattle Class, Korean Air Morning Plat
Posts: 988
.......I must say, we really are getting to the point of us vs them here.

This is a child and a bathroom. What is the big deal? You are supposed to be Canadians for crying out loud.

OTOH - Grandma seems to be a real pain in the neck and is possibly one of those people who gets her way simply because nobody wants to deal with her. This martyr syndrome of constantly pointing out the child was a........well child and urinated on her seat might have flown under the radar. Now the kids name is out there. One day some little boy will fancy this little girl and google her name. Then all h*** is gonna break out at school and the rest of the school year will be a real cakewalk for her.
The smallest state is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 4:59 pm
  #158  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
LOL. And before you all have a snort, read the post.

Disgraceful: Air Canada Doesn’t Know Basic Lavatory Etiquette

by Gary Leff on June 22, 2017

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....ory-etiquette/



--------

Originally Posted by The smallest state
.......I must say, we really are getting to the point of us vs them here.

This is a child and a bathroom. What is the big deal? You are supposed to be Canadians for crying out loud.

OTOH - Grandma seems to be a real pain in the neck and is possibly one of those people who gets her way simply because nobody wants to deal with her.....

Hello there

Welcome to FT, microcosm of the wider universe. It has always been and will always be us vs us, them vs them and various combinations in between. Life's not fair. Humans aren't always rational.

And you know very well being "Canadian" had nothing to do with it. Read the other posts in the thread. You can debate the merits of aviation aristocracy all you want. Airlines either have separate cabins for which they charge more and promise exclusivity, or it's one giant classless boat...which other airlines have, and charge accordingly.

Grandma Osmond was wrong, little Ruby will be fine.
.

Last edited by 24left; Jun 22, 2017 at 5:06 pm Reason: spelling
24left is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 6:28 pm
  #159  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
Originally Posted by The smallest state
This is a child and a bathroom. What is the big deal? You are supposed to be Canadians for crying out loud.
I'd rather not have the FA serving me in J have to deal with grandmas parading their overblown sense of entitlement and their pissy pant little grand kids.

And if that unsettles your views on what Canadians are "supposed to be" then welcome to the real world. We aren't all maple syrup and poutine.
yyznomad likes this.
Badenoch is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 6:45 pm
  #160  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 747
We put our kids in pull-ups for air travel until they were well past toddler age - it seems a sensible precaution and if grandma would have used her brains she could have avoided the whole mess.
trilinearmipmap is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2017, 7:34 pm
  #161  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
Originally Posted by Sunny Day
It reminds me one time I was on WJ flight between YXE-YYC-YEG. I am in row 3, with an empty seat next to me, in Plus seating. I am like, oh sweet !!! It comes with free meal and drinks and space galore.

A mom and young son get on at the very end. They go to the back and notice they were not seated together. FA frantically try to ask other passengers to help out so the mom and son can sit together. Crickets. No one offers to move. FA asks again for help the second time. Nothing. I hear the commotion in the back and wonder not a single person wants to exchange their seat? Really? FA walks to the front and I offered to give up my Plus seat for the mom and son. He was like, "Are you sure? You would give up your Plus seat for them?" It is not a big deal. I sit up here all the time and if someone else can be made whole and enjoy this experience and the food and drinks, I am more than happy to sit in the back. Both the mom and son really enjoyed the extra service and being together. They were so appreciative and as was the FA. He came back to offer me food and drinks even though technically I wasn't in Plus seats anymore.

In the end, kindness goes a long way and I can't help but to feel we need more of this than less. We can start with something small....like sharing a toilet.
I like you
quantumofforce is offline  
Old Jun 23, 2017, 7:43 am
  #162  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: air miles
Posts: 277
Ok I am going to throw an outside the box thought out here. Why is the current practice to place the biz lavatory at the front of the cabin? Could the lav be moved to the rear of the cabin? Thus in the event that an economy passenger does wind up using the biz lavatory they are not walking past all the biz class passengers?

Is there some essential equipment (wiring, plumbing) at the front of the plane that can not be relocated to the middle? Would this set up use more space than the lav at the front set up?
JustSomeGuy1978 is offline  
Old Jun 23, 2017, 7:46 am
  #163  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: トロント
Programs: IHG Gold
Posts: 4,809
Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy1978
Ok I am going to throw an outside the box thought out here. Why is the current practice to place the biz lavatory at the front of the cabin? Could the lav be moved to the rear of the cabin? Thus in the event that an economy passenger does wind up using the biz lavatory they are not walking past all the biz class passengers?

Is there some essential equipment (wiring, plumbing) at the front of the plane that can not be relocated to the middle? Would this set up use more space than the lav at the front set up?

Why? Because the front is where the business passenger seats are.

Why on earth would you suggest they put it at the back. I am not really interested in sitting in the first few rows and walking to the back of the aircraft to use the lav.

If you put it at the back in economy it has, by default, become an economy lav. Imagine the turmoil when the business passenger walks to the back to use his washroom to find 4 Y pax waiting in line patiently to use it. What's he supposed to say...excuse me, out of my way ..my ticket trumps yours...sorry about that.
mapleg is offline  
Old Jun 23, 2017, 7:48 am
  #164  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Programs: air miles
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by mapleg
Why? Because the front is where the business passenger seats are.

Why on earth would you suggest they put it at the back. I am not really interested in sitting in the first few rows and walking to the back of the aircraft to use the lav.
what I mean is at the rear of the cabin between the biz class cabin and the economy class cabin. NOT at the extreme rear of the aircraft, I guess I wasn't clear when I used the terms cabin and middle of the aircraft.
JustSomeGuy1978 is offline  
Old Jun 23, 2017, 7:54 am
  #165  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,187
Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy1978
what I mean is at the rear of the cabin between the biz class cabin and the economy class cabin. NOT at the extreme rear of the aircraft, I guess I wasn't clear when I used the terms cabin and middle of the aircraft.
That would make it even more likely that Y pax would use it.

It's not just that I want to avoid them running through the aisle.

I want a clean lav with no line.
canadiancow is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.