songsc

Well, everyone is somewhat "cheap". We all try our best to make sure benefits outweigh the costs. We all try to maximize our own benefits. Some people understand rules well and they are able to maximize their benefits in the long run, while others don't know the rules so much and what they get from AC is below their expectations. However only people in the second group are labeled "cheap" here. I think many experienced FF here gets much more value from their money than flying once a year tango flyers, therefore we are the ones "cheapening the cabin"

I don't expect AC to obtain the same level of profits margin as US big 3, or provide services similar to ME3 and East Asia carriers, because of the demography and geography of Canada. However there are still plenty of rooms for improvement, for both AC and passengers.

LoveHateRelationship

I can't speak for everyone else but as a former AC traveler, I can't help but feel like AC is constantly on the race to the bottom. Price is one thing but when you get less and less value for what you're paying for (an economy class ticket) it really becomes noticeable. Not all business flyers get Flex fare let alone business class so that differentiator has really become noticeable in Tango these past few years.

There's something to be said with almost everyone you speak to about AC has a horror story about flying with them whether it's bad service, apathy, or just plain poor cabin comfort. If AC wants to be a LCC then they should market their product accordingly. At least with a LCC you know exactly what you're paying for, a cheap ticket that gets you from A to B with nothing but a seat and everything else costs extra.

mapleg

That could be set about people in many nations around the world.

China comes to mind.

Wpgjetse

Except people in China take responsibility for themselves.

mapleg

Let's just say we differ on that opinion.

longtimeflyin

I think in general air travel is full of customers who are cheap who have high expectations.

This is rampant in almost every airline forum that I browse on FlyerTalk. This is not, in my opinion, an Air Canada specific problem.

tracon

After 30 years of credit cards advertising free flights and airlines advertising comfortable seats and tasty food, it's to be expected that the customer has false expectations.

The reality, most passengers annually spend more on coffee than air travel.
The first has a huge mark up, the latter barely breaks even.

Consumers are to stupid to learn when they are being fleeced.
Airlines don't do a good job of showing the huge costs to their operations.

Sean Peever

I disagree with the thread title. With the $$$$ that AC charges between YVR and YYZ on a R/T 3 weeks out, it's not cheap and they should provide a lot!

Transpacificflyer

Where do you come up with this 99% value? Did you miss this week's headline? National News posted May 10, 2017 by Dylan McCullough
Air Canada ranked worst airline in North America for satisfaction
Canada’s largest airline did not show well in a recent poll ranking passenger satisfaction among North American airlines.
In the new study released by J.D. Power, Air Canada was ranked dead last.

Do you consider a dead last result, a delivering on its "promise"?
What exactly is this promise? According to Air Canada's publicity and advertising it promises on time performance.

Well, with its 76.3% result in 2016, I don't think so. West Jet had an 82.73% result. Delta which operates on some congested routes and in wild weather conditions managed 85.17% OTP.

Air Canada promises me quality food when I travel in its international business class. Do you want me to post some pictures of the congealed glop served up on my last 2 flights? AC catering can now be described by 4 letter word that denotes poor quality. Here's a hint, it starts with an S and it certainly is not a big hit with me.

Is the AC promise one of onboard comfort? Only if one is fond of dirty cabins, urine stained lavs, filthy sticky trays etc.

Is the AC promise one of helpful personnel ready to assist? Ask the 15 year old child abandoned at YYZ how he was treated. How about the abandonment of customers common during large scale IROPS? The AC promise on that one should be, HAHA suckers, you are on your own.

I like the Air Canada promise on baggage delivery time. Oh wait, there isn't one. Oooops.


Air Canada customers have not been very demanding, otherwise they would have insisted that they be given the same rights and avenues of redress that US and EU citizens have. Canadians have been taking the abuse and mistreatment from Canadian airlines for too long, Now, they are saying enough is enough. Air Canada is not alone on this, as all of Canada's airlines have had free rein to do as they have wanted.

Air Canada advertises magical flights and comfortable rides. This is its implicit promise. We all know what it delivers. The famous banana bread is yummy. Who can resist the on board catering? And let's not forget the contribution to fellowship, with Rouge pax being given the opportunity to touch a seatmate, to become intimate with their neighbor.

You call it entitlement, I call it a reasonable expectation to receive the goods as advertised. Air Canada and the other airlines created the expectation of service and comfort. Either deliver it or stop selling on that basis.

wolf72

I have flown AC 4 times over the past 5 years...other than my bags not making it on to the flight in HK to Vancouver, they have not been a bad airline for me to fly.

The seats are comfortable...in flight service is what you'd expect from a friendly Canadian neighbour...and meals were 100% better than what Cathay were dishing out in economy.

I have no problems so far with AC.

canadiancow

I'm not cheap.

rickg523

Thanks for the link. Interesting article. But it always comes back to Jules Dupuit, doesn't it?

canadiancow

I don't really see the big issue.

You have passengers who want to spend $200 and get free bags, E+, upgrades, etc.
You have passengers who want to spend $200 and get nothing.

SHOCKING that they don't want to sell the $200 seats to people in the former category.

What's that acronym in the DL forum? WFBF?

P.S. When I typed that acronym the first time, it came out as "WFBY", which shows you where I lie on this spectrum

Wpgjetse

The one problem with these surveys are they are usually from people that are not happy for many reasons. Just ask Westjet, who hold them with so little wt, they didn't even buy/read the results. Plus, Happy customers don't usually respond. With regards to baggage, I'm finding the bags are being delivered quickly over the last 6+ months.
BTW, why are you talking about this study as if it is about Canadian pax's? The study is based on U.S. travellers and many of them have not even flown AC in the results.

Transpacificflyer

1. You stated that Air Canada delivers on its "promise" 99% of the time", but you cannot support that claim. I believe that you made up the 99%. Unsubstantiated information was presented as factual. This is not honest. Even the most rudimentary of results such as the airlines poor OTP disproves the 99% claim. If the airline fails to fly on time 24% of the time, how can you claim that it delivers 99% of the time? At the very least this should tell you that the airline has a problem.

2. I pointed out the poor rating received from J.D. Power as an illustration that AC is not delivering on its "promise". You dismiss the J.D. Power with illogical statements;
a) "these surveys are they are usually from people that are not happy for many reasons."
If that's true, why do some airlines obtain such high ratings? Your claim makes no sense. Why then did Alaska obtain the highest possible score? How did Delta do so well?

Take the time to read how the ratings are obtained. It is a large sample size and the responses are verified. The ratings are an indication of customer satisfaction. If large numbers of people are giving a negative assessment, this indicates that there is an issue.

b) Just ask Westjet, who hold them with so little wt, they didn't even buy/read the results. What? West Jet did poorly too, but it is in the LCC category. This thread is about Air Canada's promises. Air Canada positions itself as an international flag carrier. West Jet does not. When you claim a position and promote yourself on superior attributes, then you must deliver on those "promises".

c) Happy customers do not respond Did you write that with a straight face? Your logic holds that for Alaska, Delta, Southwest and Jet Blue which received excellent ratings, all of the respondents must be bipolar dual personalities. If those are unhappy customers, the happy customers must be floating on clouds with gossamer wings hugging unicorns and sprinkling faerie dust about.

d) The study includes Canadian customers. Do you really believe that once Air Canada planes leave Canada, Canadians disappear? Read the methodology and then come back and criticize. In any case, a customer is a customer. It doesn't matter if the customer is Canadian. Air Canada promotes itself as an International carrier.


It's not just the J.D. Power results. The common theme from every consumer feedback site is that Air Canada has been doing a poor job. No, it is not a definitive assessment, however common sense says that if so many people say you stink, then yes you most likely stink. Everyone likes to take a swipe at Skytrax, and yes its ratings are questionable. Nothing better illustrates this than its 4 star rating of Air Canada. Yet, the AC customer reviews are negative.

It wasn't too long ago, that the media and the public supported Air Canada. When the airline had its financial crisis, the pressure was on to save the airline to bail it out. Times have changed. The public has seen the airline abuse its protected status and take advantage of the absence of consumer protection. The growing animosity and the holding of the airline accountable for its empty promises of service is of the airline's own doing. They provoked the public and then had the temerity to laugh at the people they exploited by giving their senior managers generous compensation packages. It won't fly anymore.