Earn Your Wings (EYW) ecological consequences
May 7, 2017, 11:08 pm
#31
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
Isn't there effectively already a carbon tax charged on all flights departing BC? Or are international flights somehow exempt from that?
I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of carbon tax charged on all flights ex-Canada in the next 5-10 years.
I wouldn't be surprised to see some form of carbon tax charged on all flights ex-Canada in the next 5-10 years.
May 9, 2017, 2:23 pm
#32
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
May 9, 2017, 3:27 pm
#33
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Providence RI
Programs: American Exec Plat, Hyatt Refugeeist, Marriot Gold, Air Canada Cattle Class, Korean Air Morning Plat
Posts: 988
This has to be the most uniquely Canadian thread on here...............
Skybluesea..........
- Did AC ever respond?
- Who stamped COPY at the bottom of the letter?
Skybluesea..........
- Did AC ever respond?
- Who stamped COPY at the bottom of the letter?
May 9, 2017, 7:42 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SEMM / HH Diamond
Posts: 3,158
On a related note ... I'd love to know what percentage of pax do buy the carbon offsets.
I'm sure that Skybluesea does, but is (s)he part of the majority? The minority? The only one? Curious.
For the record: while I try to be good to the environment, I have never purchased (or even seriously considered purchasing) carbon offsets for my flights. I know, I know, I'm a bad person - but c'est la vie.
I'm sure that Skybluesea does, but is (s)he part of the majority? The minority? The only one? Curious.
For the record: while I try to be good to the environment, I have never purchased (or even seriously considered purchasing) carbon offsets for my flights. I know, I know, I'm a bad person - but c'est la vie.
Dec 21, 2017, 6:08 am
#36
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,612
Is there any proof that Air Canada puts on extra flights for EYW? The planes are going to fly regardless, and sure maybe 25% of my 150lb frame is going to increase fuel usage but given I won’t be checking a bag for EYW I’m likely using less fuel than a pax with a $25 checked bag. And most flights are short haul, most EYW flyers are not taking TPACs they wouldn’t have taken anyway for the wings.
Dec 21, 2017, 6:26 am
#37
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: AC
Posts: 2,167
Is there any proof that Air Canada puts on extra flights for EYW? The planes are going to fly regardless, and sure maybe 25% of my 150lb frame is going to increase fuel usage but given I won’t be checking a bag for EYW I’m likely using less fuel than a pax with a $25 checked bag. And most flights are short haul, most EYW flyers are not taking TPACs they wouldn’t have taken anyway for the wings.
Let's take one example. YYZ -> YVR (common flight serviced by both narrowbody and widebodies).
Assuming the load goes up for a flight that day that was served by a A320, there might be an equipment swap to a 321 or to a widebody. So yes, there couple be material impacts to the environment as a result of this game.
Is it worth worrying about? That is up to individuals to make a decision for themselves.
Jan 1, 2018, 5:07 pm
#38
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 336
Quote: Originally Posted by expert7700
AC isn't adding any more flights for EYW.
This is true, but is undermined by the argument that one letter wasted Canada Post truck emissions, seeing as the vehicle was delivering mail anyway. Seats occupied by EYW contestants flying for the sale of a game leads to increased demand on routes, resulting in the possibility of added frequencies or the use of larger aircraft, both of which do add significant new amounts of pollution. I doubt of course that EYW contests by themselves will be responsible for an additional route frequency, but they do contribute - which is the point of the letter if I interpret it
AC isn't adding any more flights for EYW.
This is true, but is undermined by the argument that one letter wasted Canada Post truck emissions, seeing as the vehicle was delivering mail anyway. Seats occupied by EYW contestants flying for the sale of a game leads to increased demand on routes, resulting in the possibility of added frequencies or the use of larger aircraft, both of which do add significant new amounts of pollution. I doubt of course that EYW contests by themselves will be responsible for an additional route frequency, but they do contribute - which is the point of the letter if I interpret it
Therefore, pax doing MR's or EYW or other system gaming does in fact increase emissions, and AC profit. Which is really what this is all about. AC pads their bottom line while getting pax just buzzed and excited enough on cheap perks, meanwhile parading what great corporate citizens they are.
Does MR/EYW'ers footprint outweigh the benefit from reduced weights + winglets? Unlikely. Does a carbon offset wholly reverse the negative impact? Does a fine for an oil spill? Unlikely. The point here is that collectively as a society, and AC as a good corporate citizen, we must evolve our behaviours in a constructive manner. Does that mean less decadence and excess? Maybe for some. But there is still a place for a profitable airline industry, and evolved frequent flier programs.
EYW and FF programs started with the best intentions, but as currently structured they are increasingly unethical in our modern world.
Jan 1, 2018, 5:17 pm
#39
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
After all these years, I still think this is the most brilliant thing ever written on FlyerTalk:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/15324654-post21.html
This year I will just barely re-qualify as Elite, so I was also doing some thinking about the topic. As pointed out, the real issue above is how to value miles, and how to limit how many you can purchase.
Why not just provide a mechanism for getting miles for virtual flights. That is, book any flight(s) on ac.com, and then notify AC you don't want to fly it but just want the miles. So AC gets the same $ for not flying a passenger as they would have for flying the passenger and you still has to "fly" the same distance and hence spend the same $ to earn miles. It would certainly save the waste of time doing a mileage run, you could take advantage of any sales etc, and AC would have a new lucrative part of their business - not-flying people from one city to another.
Why not just provide a mechanism for getting miles for virtual flights. That is, book any flight(s) on ac.com, and then notify AC you don't want to fly it but just want the miles. So AC gets the same $ for not flying a passenger as they would have for flying the passenger and you still has to "fly" the same distance and hence spend the same $ to earn miles. It would certainly save the waste of time doing a mileage run, you could take advantage of any sales etc, and AC would have a new lucrative part of their business - not-flying people from one city to another.
Sep 5, 2019, 10:09 am
#42
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
I wouldn't be surprised if, in the grand scheme of things, the incremental flying from EYW is not as significant as we'd think.
It's entirely possible that the top 40 participants are actively flying extra flights just to participate, while the rest of the leader board is just people that would've flown anyways and, at best, reshuffle their routings & dates for extra miles...
It's entirely possible that the top 40 participants are actively flying extra flights just to participate, while the rest of the leader board is just people that would've flown anyways and, at best, reshuffle their routings & dates for extra miles...
Last edited by tcook052; Sep 6, 2019 at 6:40 am
Sep 5, 2019, 10:23 am
#43
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,191
//I think several of our Beech1900 flights the last 2 years had 6-7 pax. Minus the 5 EYW folks on the flight they would have had 1-2. Would AC have been able to substitute a smaller aircraft with less fuel burn if we decided to stay at the underground Gander MLL or Gander Centurion lounge instead of fly?
Last edited by expert7700; Sep 5, 2019 at 10:33 am
Oct 3, 2019, 10:16 am
#45
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: YYC, LAX/SMO
Programs: AC S100K, HH Silver
Posts: 91
Bah. Some people like to spend money on Sunday drives in their classic (ie. polluting) or fancy sport (ie. gas guzzling) car, some people like to race oil burning two-stroke motocross bikes, and some people like to hike in the mountains which requires a drive to the trailhead. Me, I like the thrill of flight whether, as a licensed commercial pilot, I'm at the controls or not. I am not going to get the same enjoyment out of flying a kite. But, I make up for that by investing in making my home more energy efficient and owning efficient vehicles (one of which is fully EV).
Last edited by douglasr; Oct 3, 2019 at 10:38 am