MME2YYZ

Yesterday AC134, YYC-YYZ started at $300 or $400 flight credit, closer to boarding it was $600 or $700 flight credit. Seat available on next flight at noon, If I wasn't going to the Jays game last night I would have taken it. Not sure if they had any volunteers or if someone was denied

canadiancow

I debated which thread to put this in. It happened 48 hours 14 minutes before departure, though is much more a "close to travel" issue. But in the end, I decided it was best here.

I was booked on YYZ-YVR-SFO on Monday. Full Latitude Y, confirmed eUpgrade from months ago. YYZ-YVR had been looking pretty full for days, and was J0 O0 Y0 when I checked earlier, which likely (but not necessarily) indicated an overbooking.

I received a text/email saying I've been rebooked onto YYZ-SFO non-stop.

So of course instead of relaxing before my dinner, I called AC. The agent was extremely confused. Apparently there weren't even any remarks about why this was done. So she put me on hold while she called a few departments.

Of course, the flight remained at J0 after kicking me off, so while I have had AC incompetence "undone" in similar situations, I wasn't counting on it. And I wasn't even sure if this was incompetence (at the time, based on things I was being told, that seemed like the correct word, but Hanlon's razor does not apply here).

If the reason was overbooking, I was curious whether IDB compensation would apply.

If I couldn't get it resolved, I was concerned that since I'm actually departing later and arriving earlier, that I'd get nothing. It specifically says "0 to 6 hours", not "up to 6 hours".. which suggests they can reroute you to arrive early and avoid any payout.

But the agent communicated with a couple people and seemed to think they overbooked J and then kicked me off to a "better routing".

But upon further investigation, it looked like an agent at YYZ did it today. I was asked if I was at the airport today (I was not). This led to questions about why an airport agent would do it if I wasn't there.

So it was escalated further. I received a case number starting with ESC followed by four numbers (suggesting they don't have many of these cases), which was a first for me. In over 1000 flights, I've never had something done this far before departure that was so egregious it required this. I was told I'd get a callback from a supervisor.

Everything above this line (well, verb tenses have since been modified, since I originally wrote it while on the phone with AC) was meant to be posted before I left for dinner, but the call was over 50 minutes, and I was in a rush, and forgot. Oops.

Anyway, at dinner, I was called back by a reservations supervisor. She was first apologetic that the agent I spoke to wasn't able to track down the reason. The real reason is that they saw an overbooked flight (after kicking me off, it was full in J and -5 in Y), and rebooked me to "a better non-stop". But she recognized people book certain itineraries for certain reasons, and thinks I should have been asked.

In order, my reasons for selecting this itinerary were:
1. High-speed wifi for the transcon (I'm now on a 321, and the only other option that fits my schedule is a 7M8)
2. Seeing friends in YVR
3. More SQM

But there was no getting me back on that itinerary.

APPR talks about things like "more checked-in passengers showing up at the gate than there are seats for". That obviously didn't happen here. But aside from that aspect (which, IMO, isn't relevant for the spirit of the law), this seems like a pretty clear cut IDB.

The next question is the "0-6 hour delay". I'm not sure if -1 could count as 0. But I'm super pissed off about the whole thing. This trip has been booked for months and clearly I've scheduled both YYZ and SFO time with the YYZ-YVR-SFO itinerary.

The idea that an agent would see a SE MM in full Y (i.e. someone who flies, and has flown a ton, and clearly wasn't choosing the routing for lowest cost) and think "oh I'm sure they'd prefer the non-stop"...

I'm definitely going to write in about this. But assuming space doesn't open up, allowing me to get back onto the flights I originally booked, I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts (for or against) or suggestions for the IDB aspect.

I think I'm owed $900. They didn't solicit volunteers. They removed me from an overbooked flight.

But I don't think it will be an easy battle.

canadiancow

I swung by the YYZ concierge office today. They were somewhat confused with the whole situation, and said they don't really deal with that, but they're going to write in on my behalf. I'll keep the thread updated.

billdokes

Isn't the real issue here that you booked YYZ - YVR - SFO because you had something you needed/wanted to do in YVR during the stopover, and that if you had wanted to go direct from YYZ to SFO you would have booked that?

I can think of a thousand reasons why you would book it that way and I don't think it makes any sense that they just randomly change your routing without reaching out and asking if that was ok or preferable. What if, for example, you were planning to fly YVR - SFO with a child who now has to go as a UM, or maybe doesn't qualify as a UM? Or you have a legal or medical matter to attend to that you booked the flights around? Or, or, or???

If it were me I'd call the Concierge, tell them this is unacceptable and that I'm completely comfortable with them disappointing someone else to put me back on the itinerary that I booked, please and thank you.

canadiancow

So the concierge wrote in on my behalf (their idea, not mine), and submitted both a customer relations claim and an APPR claim.

Customer relations just responded with a $200 eCoupon.

I'm much more interested in the APPR response though.

swonder

Adding a data point; I'm pretty content with this one:
1. Date of IDB/VDB: October 2, 2023
2. IDB or VDB: VDB
3. Compensation dollar amount: $1,400 x 3 pax = $4,200
4. Cash (cheque) or eMCO: eMCO ($200 per pax additional to take credit over cash)
5. Flight # you were DB'd from: AC 138 (YYC-YYZ), 10:50
6. Flight # you were placed on after being DB'd: AC 150, 18:10
7. Were hotel vouchers provided? No (we ended up booking a day rate at the Calgary Airport Marriott out of pocket for $200+tax)
8. Were food vouchers provided? Yes, 3x$30 vouchers

Adam Smith

Were these actually eMCOs or were they eCoupons? @yyznomad, I think we may need to update the wiki, because I suspect they're eCoupons...

swonder

They were electronic travel vouchers, not eCoupons. Here is a redacted image.

painintheuk

I got the same thing for my VDB back in June. I haven't used it yet, but admit that I've forgotten the difference.

canadiancow

So, yeah. That's AC's response.

There was no delay to final destination. There was an involuntary "rebooking" due to an overbooked 121.

flyingcrooked

0 hours delay is not some small amount of delay, and more delay than -1. It is no delay at all. -1 is also no delay at all. So if 0-6 hrs delay warrants compensation, -1 should. -1, -2, -3, etc, they are all = no delay, that is, 0 delay.

That said, AC doesn�t care. I�m dealing with them at the moment in a case where they are just insisting I�m not due compensation UK laws says I�m due, there is no dispute about the facts just about the law, which seems crazy because it�s black and white in this case. In that situation I can just ask an ADR body to deal with it, but no such thing exists in your case I think.

What I don�t understand about this situation is you could get back onto the original plane, right, just not in J because it was sold out? You had purchased a Y ticket more than six hours before departure and SE and 75k can get on overbooked planes so long as that condition is met. AC has moved you to another flight, but that doesn�t change the fact you bought a Y fare at least six hours before departure and so are supposed to be guaranteed a seat on the plane. By booting you off they directly violated that guarantee.

canadiancow

I did not book a guaranteed reservation in economy class. It was a flight pass, which is explicitly not permitted under those terms. Though I'm not convinced they would have done anything differently.

I (gasp) sent Gabor a message. I'll see if he has any thoughts. This is definitely not "denied boarding" per the rules, which requires pax show up at the gate. But it also seems like a ridiculous out if they can just do this before check-in opens, thereby preventing you from showing up at the gate.