Air Canada Surcharges - How are they calculated?
Mar 18, 2017, 10:30 pm
#1
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Air Canada Surcharges - How are they calculated?
I searched AC FT for a generic thread on Air Canada's "Surcharges" and "Carrier Surcharges". Threads that had the word "surcharge" in the title turned out to be questions related to Aeroplan tickets. (There are a number of threads that showed up in the search but the thread titles were things like the "complaints" thread)
NOTE: Should anyone want to post questions related to AC's Surcharges, I kept the thread title generic so it can be searched and other questions added.
-----
So....
I noticed that "Carrier Surcharges" have increased on HKG tickets over the past 14 months. "Surcharges" have remained mostly the same.
I also notice that some numbers are missing from the AC Detailed Summary page when in the process of buying the ticket (on AC.com). Since I take screen shots, I can go back and compare the pages from the booking process as well as the tickets that were issued for those bookings.
I put together a small chart with dates of months where I flew and in some months, there were multiple trips. Since the numbers matched on those multiple tickets in those specific months, I did not list them separately.
Things that seem strange:
1. For the AC ticket in July 2016, on both the screen shot summary and the ticket, there is only a single line showing $108.12 under "surcharges". Even if it would include both categories, that amount is very high. I had a CX ticket from a week prior that month, and their "Carrier Surcharge" was $37.60.
So what type of accounting produced $108.12?
2. As you can see, "Carrier Surcharges" are missing on the chart for September 2016 (there were multiple trips).
Did AC not charge them, or did they blend them in to the Base Fare?
3. Looking at tickets for June 2017, I see the "Surcharge" is within range, but the "Carrier Surcharge" has increased quite a bit.
Not wanting to blame AC for this until I went looking, I checked CX and AA on routes YYZ-HKG (AA via DFW). They are all showing the $82.60 "Carrier Surcharge", so I assumed it's related to HKG. (CX website had a page on these surcharges, detailed by destination).
Since this is my own make-work project because the different numbers caught my attention, does anyone know why the AC numbers either show, don't show, or are missing?
Thanks.
.
NOTE: Should anyone want to post questions related to AC's Surcharges, I kept the thread title generic so it can be searched and other questions added.
-----
So....
I noticed that "Carrier Surcharges" have increased on HKG tickets over the past 14 months. "Surcharges" have remained mostly the same.
I also notice that some numbers are missing from the AC Detailed Summary page when in the process of buying the ticket (on AC.com). Since I take screen shots, I can go back and compare the pages from the booking process as well as the tickets that were issued for those bookings.
I put together a small chart with dates of months where I flew and in some months, there were multiple trips. Since the numbers matched on those multiple tickets in those specific months, I did not list them separately.
Things that seem strange:
1. For the AC ticket in July 2016, on both the screen shot summary and the ticket, there is only a single line showing $108.12 under "surcharges". Even if it would include both categories, that amount is very high. I had a CX ticket from a week prior that month, and their "Carrier Surcharge" was $37.60.
So what type of accounting produced $108.12?
2. As you can see, "Carrier Surcharges" are missing on the chart for September 2016 (there were multiple trips).
Did AC not charge them, or did they blend them in to the Base Fare?
3. Looking at tickets for June 2017, I see the "Surcharge" is within range, but the "Carrier Surcharge" has increased quite a bit.
Not wanting to blame AC for this until I went looking, I checked CX and AA on routes YYZ-HKG (AA via DFW). They are all showing the $82.60 "Carrier Surcharge", so I assumed it's related to HKG. (CX website had a page on these surcharges, detailed by destination).
Since this is my own make-work project because the different numbers caught my attention, does anyone know why the AC numbers either show, don't show, or are missing?
Thanks.
.
Mar 19, 2017, 1:10 am
#2
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'Surcharges' originate from Category 12 of the fare rules for the particular fare components on the ticket. They show up in the fare calculation ladder with a letter 'Q'. They can be charged for many reasons including but not limited to: fuel, insurance, navigation, peak travel, sector, seasons, security, equipment type or category, airport/terminal, RBD, validating carrier, waiver of other fare rules such as advance purchase, min/max stay etc, and of course: miscellaneous.
Because 'Q' surcharges are part of the fare, they can earn commission on commission-eligible fares, and interline to other carriers. To make changes to 'Q' surcharges requires the fare itself to be republished.
'Carrier Surcharges' (or imposed fees) are the fancy name given to YQ and YR. They are imposed for a more limited set of items - namely fuel, insurance, and miscellaneous/other. They also show up as part of the 'tax' calculation on the ticket.
Unlike 'Q' surcharges which are imposed by the fare owner, YQ and YR are imposed by the marketing carrier based on various conditions including sectors, journey/trip/destination, fare type, RBD, and government regulations in various countries limiting the amount of these types of surcharges.
YQ and YR amounts and rules are filed separately from fares which allows them to be updated without having to republish fares. The rules for calculating YQ and YR can be very complex especially when multiple marketing carriers are involved. As well, when flights are marketed by carrier A and ticketed by carrier B, carrier A and B need to have a bilateral agreement for carrier B to collect the YQ/YR for carrier A, and such agreements may not cover all situations. This can result in vastly different YQ/YR being charged on a mixed-carrier itinerary depending on who issues the ticket, or whether flights are booked as codeshares or not.
**
Regarding your specific questions on HKG trips, this is fairly easy to explain.
The $7-8 CAD surcharge is the 45 HKD sector surcharge collected on the HKG-Canada segment that AC (or all airlines, really) pays to HKG for security. This amount varies on all of the tickets because of currency fluctuations.
The extra $100 for your July 2016 ticket is likely a peak travel surcharge. I don't know your exact fare but this did seem to exist in some AC fares last year:
For the Carrier Surcharge (YQ), Hong Kong regulates the amounts that can be charged. For a good portion of 2016, the amount that could be charged on Canada-HK trips was 0. They only came back in late 2016.
Because 'Q' surcharges are part of the fare, they can earn commission on commission-eligible fares, and interline to other carriers. To make changes to 'Q' surcharges requires the fare itself to be republished.
'Carrier Surcharges' (or imposed fees) are the fancy name given to YQ and YR. They are imposed for a more limited set of items - namely fuel, insurance, and miscellaneous/other. They also show up as part of the 'tax' calculation on the ticket.
Unlike 'Q' surcharges which are imposed by the fare owner, YQ and YR are imposed by the marketing carrier based on various conditions including sectors, journey/trip/destination, fare type, RBD, and government regulations in various countries limiting the amount of these types of surcharges.
YQ and YR amounts and rules are filed separately from fares which allows them to be updated without having to republish fares. The rules for calculating YQ and YR can be very complex especially when multiple marketing carriers are involved. As well, when flights are marketed by carrier A and ticketed by carrier B, carrier A and B need to have a bilateral agreement for carrier B to collect the YQ/YR for carrier A, and such agreements may not cover all situations. This can result in vastly different YQ/YR being charged on a mixed-carrier itinerary depending on who issues the ticket, or whether flights are booked as codeshares or not.
**
Regarding your specific questions on HKG trips, this is fairly easy to explain.
The $7-8 CAD surcharge is the 45 HKD sector surcharge collected on the HKG-Canada segment that AC (or all airlines, really) pays to HKG for security. This amount varies on all of the tickets because of currency fluctuations.
The extra $100 for your July 2016 ticket is likely a peak travel surcharge. I don't know your exact fare but this did seem to exist in some AC fares last year:
Code:
V FARE BASIS BK FARE TRAVEL-TICKET AP MINMAX RTG
34 ZXCSTT Z R 3814.00 T31MY -/‡ -/12M PA01
PASSENGER TYPE-ADT AUTO PRICE-YES
FROM-YTO TO-HKG CXR-AC TVL-15JUL16 RULE-BAC1 IPRP/3
FARE BASIS-ZXCSTT SPECIAL FARE DIS-E VENDOR-ATP
FARE TYPE-BX RT-BUSINESS CLASS EXCURSION
CAD 3814.00 0301 E30APR16 D-INFINITY FC-ZXCSTT FN-2B
SYSTEM DATES - CREATED 29APR16/1521 EXPIRES 13JUN16/1122
12.SURCHARGES
IF INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2.
THERE IS NO MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE PER
DIRECTION PER ANY PASSENGER.
IF CONTRACT BULK INFANT PSGR UNDER 2.
THERE IS NO MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE PER
DIRECTION PER ANY PASSENGER.
IF INCLUSIVE TOUR INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2.
THERE IS NO MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE PER
DIRECTION PER ANY PASSENGER. ‡
MD«
ORIGINATING CANADA INBOUND - ‡
SEASONAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 300.00 WILL BE ADDED TO
THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ANY PASSENGER FROM 01JAN
THROUGH 10JAN.
AND - SEASONAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 100.00 WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ANY PASSENGER FROM
27APR THROUGH 29APR.
AND - SEASONAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 100.00 WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ANY PASSENGER FROM
01JUL THROUGH 31JUL.
AND - SEASONAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 300.00 WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ANY PASSENGER FROM
01AUG THROUGH 17AUG.
AND - SEASONAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 450.00 WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ANY PASSENGER FROM
18AUG THROUGH 24AUG.
AND - SEASONAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 600.00 WILL BE ADDED
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ANY PASSENGER FROM
25AUG THROUGH 05SEP. ‡
MD«
AND - SEASONAL SURCHARGE OF CAD 300.00 WILL BE ADDED ‡
TO THE APPLICABLE FARE PER ANY PASSENGER FROM
06SEP THROUGH 11SEP.
FROM HKG TO YYZ, SECTOR SURCHARGE OF HKD 45 APPLIES.
Mar 19, 2017, 9:35 am
#3
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@D582
Thanks for the detailed and informative reply. ^
All tickets were P fares or P/Z fares and were a similar price-point. Since the $7-8 "surcharges" were consistent, I focused on the odd items.
The $108.12 listed under "surcharges" for July last year makes no sense to me from a detail perspective as there is no "Carrier Surcharges" line on the ticket or screen shot of the booking AND it is not charged on the CX ticket from the same time. So, if AC was charging a "peak surcharge" for last July, CX was not on the exact same route.
Also, I still don't know how the "Carrier Surcharge" line item is also missing from all of the September tickets, so I assumed AC built it into the fare.
I posted on this forum last year that HKG was charging an additional fee to cover the costs for the planned third runway. I'm sure that cost is buried in there somewhere.
Thanks again.
P.S. I found the CX chart on their site quite helpful as it breaks it down
https://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_...e-updates.html
Thanks for the detailed and informative reply. ^
All tickets were P fares or P/Z fares and were a similar price-point. Since the $7-8 "surcharges" were consistent, I focused on the odd items.
The $108.12 listed under "surcharges" for July last year makes no sense to me from a detail perspective as there is no "Carrier Surcharges" line on the ticket or screen shot of the booking AND it is not charged on the CX ticket from the same time. So, if AC was charging a "peak surcharge" for last July, CX was not on the exact same route.
Also, I still don't know how the "Carrier Surcharge" line item is also missing from all of the September tickets, so I assumed AC built it into the fare.
I posted on this forum last year that HKG was charging an additional fee to cover the costs for the planned third runway. I'm sure that cost is buried in there somewhere.
Thanks again.
P.S. I found the CX chart on their site quite helpful as it breaks it down
https://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_...e-updates.html
Mar 19, 2017, 10:26 am
#4
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If you're still unsure about anything, I'd read D582's post again, because it explained every number (or lack thereof) in your chart.
Mar 19, 2017, 11:22 am
#5
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Mar 21, 2017, 2:55 pm
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Mar 21, 2017, 3:50 pm
#10
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@D582
The $108.12 listed under "surcharges" for July last year makes no sense to me from a detail perspective as there is no "Carrier Surcharges" line on the ticket or screen shot of the booking AND it is not charged on the CX ticket from the same time. So, if AC was charging a "peak surcharge" for last July, CX was not on the exact same route.
The $108.12 listed under "surcharges" for July last year makes no sense to me from a detail perspective as there is no "Carrier Surcharges" line on the ticket or screen shot of the booking AND it is not charged on the CX ticket from the same time. So, if AC was charging a "peak surcharge" for last July, CX was not on the exact same route.
How CX chooses to publish their fares can be totally different than AC. Also, sometimes carriers will list 'Base Fare' on their websites that is inclusive of the fare surcharges, and you can only see the breakdown in the fare calculation line.
Also, I still don't know how the "Carrier Surcharge" line item is also missing from all of the September tickets, so I assumed AC built it into the fare.
I posted on this forum last year that HKG was charging an additional fee to cover the costs for the planned third runway. I'm sure that cost is buried in there somewhere.
Code:
TAX CODE TAX NAME
G3 AIRPORT CONSTRUCTION FEE
COUNTRY CODE COUNTRY NAME
HK HONG KONG SAR CHINA
............................................................
Jun 21, 2018, 1:20 pm
#13
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In looking at AC fares between Canada and the US on ITA, there is no YQ shown. In that case, can another Star Alliance carrier charge YQ for a transborder award ticket on AC?
Nov 17, 2018, 11:30 am
#14
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"Carrier Surcharge - Canada"
I started this thread in March 2017 specifically for questions related to Carrier Surcharges on Air Canada paid tickets, not Aeroplan tickets (as I wrote in my opening line)
Thanks to great answers from @D582, we all got a better understanding of this.
---------------------
Recently, I was looking at tickets to destinations in Asia, e.g. HKG, PVG, NRT etc
I looked at fares, got to the summary page, clicked details and saw "Carrier Surcharge - Canada". And it was pretty high, almost like some European destinations. I know these amount were not on tickets a few months ago.
So I pulled all the tickets to HKG and here is what the summary pages look like on the dates I listed.
.
March 2018 - YYZ-HKG
May 2018 - YYZ-HKG #1
May 2018 - YYZ-HKG #2
May 2018 - YYZ-HKG #3
November 2018 for dates in January 2019
.
NOTE: This is where I noticed the new description "Carrier Surcharge - Canada"
There are those who say that Carrier Surcharges are the way AC or airlines add a cost increase.
It caught my attention as the destinations I checked all now have it, the amounts are anywhere from $350- to almost $500 depending on route.
While AQD is not affected, it means any promo code you have will still be 15% or whatever, but the actual dollar amount of the discount will be less since the Base Fare is less.
BTW, I also checked CX and this is their recent Furl Surcharge page . Numbers are not the same as AC
https://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_...e-updates.html
So, why does AC now have these Carrier Surcharges?
I am sure there are reasons but I did some searching and found this PDF dated Nov 16, 2018
International Carrier Surcharge – AC Application
AC rule: 0115
Outlines the AC application of a YQ International carrier surcharge as part of AC Carrier surcharges and lists the amounts for Western Hemisphere, Transpacific and Transatlantic travel.
https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...rule115_en.pdf
Perhaps someone can explain it. Thanks
Thanks to great answers from @D582, we all got a better understanding of this.
---------------------
Recently, I was looking at tickets to destinations in Asia, e.g. HKG, PVG, NRT etc
I looked at fares, got to the summary page, clicked details and saw "Carrier Surcharge - Canada". And it was pretty high, almost like some European destinations. I know these amount were not on tickets a few months ago.
So I pulled all the tickets to HKG and here is what the summary pages look like on the dates I listed.
.
March 2018 - YYZ-HKG
May 2018 - YYZ-HKG #1
May 2018 - YYZ-HKG #2
May 2018 - YYZ-HKG #3
November 2018 for dates in January 2019
.
NOTE: This is where I noticed the new description "Carrier Surcharge - Canada"
There are those who say that Carrier Surcharges are the way AC or airlines add a cost increase.
It caught my attention as the destinations I checked all now have it, the amounts are anywhere from $350- to almost $500 depending on route.
While AQD is not affected, it means any promo code you have will still be 15% or whatever, but the actual dollar amount of the discount will be less since the Base Fare is less.
BTW, I also checked CX and this is their recent Furl Surcharge page . Numbers are not the same as AC
https://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_...e-updates.html
So, why does AC now have these Carrier Surcharges?
I am sure there are reasons but I did some searching and found this PDF dated Nov 16, 2018
International Carrier Surcharge – AC Application
AC rule: 0115
Outlines the AC application of a YQ International carrier surcharge as part of AC Carrier surcharges and lists the amounts for Western Hemisphere, Transpacific and Transatlantic travel.
https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...rule115_en.pdf
Perhaps someone can explain it. Thanks
Nov 17, 2018, 11:58 am
#15
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Posts: 23,802
I don't think there is anything to explain. Simply, the page you quote is what AC has decided to charge you as YQ, end of the story.
Why these figures? Why not? Because they can...
In addition to these (1) being outside discounts, (2) not contributing to TA fees, and (3) being charged on rewards, they are under their total control, which the "fare" portion of the total fare is not quite.
Why these figures? Why not? Because they can...
In addition to these (1) being outside discounts, (2) not contributing to TA fees, and (3) being charged on rewards, they are under their total control, which the "fare" portion of the total fare is not quite.