Discussion of concierge pay
Feb 3, 17, 4:04 pm
#61
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Originally Posted by Wpgjetse
NO - they solve problems. It's like American Express front of line service in time of need. Always have had my weather related problems solve with out waiting. Miss a connection, 99% of the time they meet me on the bridge with new flight info or hotel/food voucher.
Feb 3, 17, 4:36 pm
#64
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Originally Posted by songsc
Article 5 (page 15) of the link below:
http://www.unifor2002.org/getattachm...5-2020_en.aspx
I would say $13.5 is sufficient for people who just started their career. It's about $2160 per month. As long as one rents, takes public transit, and have some control over their spending, it's a living wage. I say so because not too long ago when I was a student with absolutely zero income, I spent less than $2000 per month and that was at downtown Toronto. It's not fun when I look back now, but definitely doable.
http://www.unifor2002.org/getattachm...5-2020_en.aspx
I would say $13.5 is sufficient for people who just started their career. It's about $2160 per month. As long as one rents, takes public transit, and have some control over their spending, it's a living wage. I say so because not too long ago when I was a student with absolutely zero income, I spent less than $2000 per month and that was at downtown Toronto. It's not fun when I look back now, but definitely doable.
Feb 3, 17, 5:48 pm
#66
Join Date: Mar 2014
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I actually went thru the interview process, and that $13/hr that was quoted is actually higher than the amount it used to be. That amount is with the new contract. I think it used to be in the low $12/hr range, just above minimum wage. I thankfully never got offered the position, which I found ironic, since I had over 25 years service with another airline assisting premium travelers. I found a position in the civil service, and not making $13/hr.
Feb 3, 17, 5:52 pm
#67
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Originally Posted by Justwondering1
I actually went thru the interview process, and that $13/hr that was quoted is actually higher than the amount it used to be. That amount is with the new contract. I think it used to be in the low $12/hr range, just above minimum wage.
Feb 3, 17, 6:00 pm
#68
Join Date: Mar 2014
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When I was interviewed, there were no questions on how well I understood AC products, SE benefits etc. I had worked then for a Star Alliance Partner, so I had a in depth understanding of what was offered the premium traveler, I believe it was looking for good CSR agents with, as you said, xyz skills, then they would teach them about the AC product later on. The airline I used to work for had a more of a, if everything goes to hell in a hand basket, assist the premium traveler anyway you can. AC I found in the interview leaned more towards, these are the rules, you follow them, you DO NOT deviate from them.
Feb 3, 17, 6:03 pm
#69
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Originally Posted by Justwondering1
The airline I used to work for had a more of a, if everything goes to hell in a hand basket, assist the premium traveler anyway you can. AC I found in the interview leaned more towards, these are the rules, you follow them, you DO NOT deviate from them.
Feb 3, 17, 7:07 pm
#70
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Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
Perhaps a computer solved the problem, and a concierge merely hand-delivered the solution to you. I've never had an ounce of concierge training, and I bet I - and several other FT members - could quickly and easily figure out an IRROPS contingency plan to get you where you need to be.
Feb 3, 17, 7:20 pm
#71
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Originally Posted by songsc
However, the reality is that AC and union set the rate to $13.5 and they can fill the positions. There are many reasons behind it.
1. Airlines have relatively thin profit margins.
Here's AC's data: https://ycharts.com/companies/AC.TO/profit_margin
Here's the data from SP500: https://www.yardeni.com/pub/sp500margin.pdf
2. Union: In order to pay the higher than market rate to senior employees, junior employees must be sacrificed.
3. The market: I agree many front line employees are underpaid, and I am happy to pay 5% more for retaining these good employees. But how about those passengers who only buy the minimum fares?
4. The nature of CSA jobs: I know when we travel, we interact directly with AC front line employees, and how a knowledgeable AC CSA can save our day. However this doesn't mean CSAs are very much responsible for the operation of AC or do they contribute much revenues/profits. Also the skills required for CSAs are much more common and easier to acquire than say, accountants and engineers, that's why CSAs don't have $50K to $70K starting salary.
1. Airlines have relatively thin profit margins.
Here's AC's data: https://ycharts.com/companies/AC.TO/profit_margin
Here's the data from SP500: https://www.yardeni.com/pub/sp500margin.pdf
2. Union: In order to pay the higher than market rate to senior employees, junior employees must be sacrificed.
3. The market: I agree many front line employees are underpaid, and I am happy to pay 5% more for retaining these good employees. But how about those passengers who only buy the minimum fares?
4. The nature of CSA jobs: I know when we travel, we interact directly with AC front line employees, and how a knowledgeable AC CSA can save our day. However this doesn't mean CSAs are very much responsible for the operation of AC or do they contribute much revenues/profits. Also the skills required for CSAs are much more common and easier to acquire than say, accountants and engineers, that's why CSAs don't have $50K to $70K starting salary.
Originally Posted by songsc
Social policy wise, I agree that the minimum wage is not a good measure of living expense.
What the OP is arguing is (and the point of this thread) a normative approach highlighting the inequity in AC, what you're arguing a is a positive one. Compensation and social justice (along with env sustainability) are not mutually exclusive.
We all know AC does this because they can get away with it, and gas lighting the union during CBA negotiations doesn't hurt either for those not (yet) suffering from ARN syndrome. Doesn't make it right though.
Last edited by kwflyer; Feb 3, 17 at 7:33 pm
Feb 3, 17, 7:40 pm
#72
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Originally Posted by DrunkCargo
They quit and say it was a mistake wage, offering to return for 135.00/hr...
Re Clef D'Or mentioned above, and I think kwflyer said AC is a member. That wording has long disappeared from ac.com's site, so does anyone know if they bother with the pin anymore? I certainly don't see any "concierges" wearing it, but big goofy disney-esque plastic nametags everywhere yes. They certainly do NOT behave anything like the concierges I frequently use at hotels and clubs. In fact, if they just put a decent UI on the terminal I could serve myself. OHHHHHH, that's the kiosk web thing...
Like, I'm not going to the airport later today and ask any agent/CSR "Hey, I feel like yamazaki 12... suggestions for a destination that has a few drams under $2500 that gets me back to YVR before tomorrow midday?"
Re Clef D'Or mentioned above, and I think kwflyer said AC is a member. That wording has long disappeared from ac.com's site, so does anyone know if they bother with the pin anymore? I certainly don't see any "concierges" wearing it, but big goofy disney-esque plastic nametags everywhere yes. They certainly do NOT behave anything like the concierges I frequently use at hotels and clubs. In fact, if they just put a decent UI on the terminal I could serve myself. OHHHHHH, that's the kiosk web thing...
Like, I'm not going to the airport later today and ask any agent/CSR "Hey, I feel like yamazaki 12... suggestions for a destination that has a few drams under $2500 that gets me back to YVR before tomorrow midday?"
Feb 3, 17, 10:34 pm
#73
Join Date: Aug 2014
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NRSA Travel
Originally Posted by pitz
Are they really underpaid if they can go to a sunny spot with their spouse/friend once a month? Travel anywhere they want, at all but the peak times of the year for almost nothing on a space-available basis? Interact constantly with rich and powerful people? Lots of airline employees have gained personal relationships with their frequent customers/interactees over the years as well.
The space available flight benefits are a *huge* portion of their compensation (as an exercise, price out what a system-wide "Flex" pass costs, and basically add a percentage of that to their compensation!). If that benefit were removed, I suspect half their workforce would disappear in short order. Even minor changes to the flight benefits can have the union types calling for a strike.
The space available flight benefits are a *huge* portion of their compensation (as an exercise, price out what a system-wide "Flex" pass costs, and basically add a percentage of that to their compensation!). If that benefit were removed, I suspect half their workforce would disappear in short order. Even minor changes to the flight benefits can have the union types calling for a strike.
With all of the potential costs of not getting to a destination on time, I've not flown NRSA for a long time just because a confirmed seat is much cheaper.
Maybe I'll give it a go again, only domestically, next fall, after school's back in, LOL.
Eric
Feb 3, 17, 11:29 pm
#74
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Posts: 6,195
Originally Posted by kwflyer
That's really a straw person argument. AC could easily afford to pay more to ensure their working poor no longer have to take a vow of poverty (this also applies to many other organizations). You could take the flip side and ensure Calin never makes more than 10-20 times the lowest paid worker (similar to the 1960's CEO compensation/management style thinking that many on here, love to regurgitate). Especially since those at the top can easily afford a pay cut to eradicate absolute poverty on the bottom end. PD's has more equitable compensation plan where Deluce makes around 250K, roughly 10 times their lowest paid worker compared to Calin's 300+:1
What the OP is arguing is (and the point of this thread) a normative approach highlighting the inequity in AC, what you're arguing a is a positive one. Compensation and social justice (along with env sustainability) are not mutually exclusive.
We all know AC does this because they can get away with it, and gas lighting the union during CBA negotiations doesn't hurt either for those not (yet) suffering from ARN syndrome. Doesn't make it right though.
What the OP is arguing is (and the point of this thread) a normative approach highlighting the inequity in AC, what you're arguing a is a positive one. Compensation and social justice (along with env sustainability) are not mutually exclusive.
We all know AC does this because they can get away with it, and gas lighting the union during CBA negotiations doesn't hurt either for those not (yet) suffering from ARN syndrome. Doesn't make it right though.
Feb 4, 17, 12:40 am
#75
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Originally Posted by Airnocker
I'm sorry, but you have a popular but seriously wrong perception about non-revenue space available travel. I've literally been flying non-revenue all of my life. I'm second generation airline retiree. I took an early-out offer, with only my travel pass card to show for it, because I got tired of the crappy wages. My airline soon flew off into the sunset. While a lot of personnel are drawn to the "glamour", most are avation or travel devotees. Or at least start that way. When airplanes became mass transportation, the glamour dissapeared. When the airlines were deregulated, "space available" all but disappeared. When TSA became a requirement, ease of getting to a gate to stand by, disappeared.
With all of the potential costs of not getting to a destination on time, I've not flown NRSA for a long time just because a confirmed seat is much cheaper.
Maybe I'll give it a go again, only domestically, next fall, after school's back in, LOL.
Eric
With all of the potential costs of not getting to a destination on time, I've not flown NRSA for a long time just because a confirmed seat is much cheaper.
Maybe I'll give it a go again, only domestically, next fall, after school's back in, LOL.
Eric
