songsc

Here is an observation I have on YYZ-YVR route. People in J are likely to read newspapers, books, and work on their computers. People in Y are likely to watch movies, play on their phones, sleep (I am talking about mid day flights there, not about red-eyes or early morning departures). I am not saying one activity is better or worse than the other, but when these is a noticeable distinction between J and Y, it tells something isn't it.

However, whether people working in J will learn or not is another story. If they do learn, then they will probably move to better positions very quickly.

If they do process these skills, they probably won't be FAs/MLL Dragons/Concierges for long.

songsc

Also if anyone is really interested, here is a link to AC's contract with Unifor Local 2002 which covers CSAs. Basically they get paid around $23 after 10 years.

http://www.unifor2002.org/getattachm...5-2020_en.aspx

pitz

My perception could be (and probably is) wrong. But lots of people are wrong as well. That's why AC receives a multiple of applicants to positions open. Plenty of people still possess, rightly or wrongly, some sort of romanticism around working for an airline and being around the sort of people an airline typically serves. That's how compensation can remain quite low even relative to other customer service positions requiring similar skillsets.

kwflyer

I would suspect most are trying to do a venn diagram approach of trying to get a position that somewhat aligns with their strengths, talents, and passions. Many jobs today are not career ladder jobs, but more ramp(ish) with horizontal transfers that don't necessarily pay more, but become more attractive due to job hygiene comparisons.

But that doesn't excuse AC for not paying a living wage, that the rest of society has to bear, with increased socioeconomic costs.

songsc

Agree. Just like some big name companies tend to underpay their employees.

Since Union is involved here, AC is not the only one to blame here. Also $13.5 is the starting wage, after 1 years they get paid around $23, which is not bad for CSAs.

kwflyer

Interesting. I was just scrolling through the CBA to find the pay increase. Do you know which page it is on?

I still think year 1 should be bumped up to living wage levels, very difficult physically (and mentally) to survive your first year on that.

songsc

Article 5 (page 15) of the link below:
http://www.unifor2002.org/getattachm...5-2020_en.aspx

I would say $13.5 is sufficient for people who just started their career. It's about $2160 per month. As long as one rents, takes public transit, and have some control over their spending, it's a living wage. I say so because not too long ago when I was a student with absolutely zero income, I spent less than $2000 per month and that was at downtown Toronto. It's not fun when I look back now, but definitely doable.

SKYEG

​​​​​​It was still just a highschool job for me. I had ambitions and went to university. Glad I did. I also wanted to make much more money than that. Plus, retail means evening and weekends, and I love my social life!

kwflyer

The living for Toronto is nowhere near $13.50 (try $18.50). I could live off $50 worth of groceries a month, but doesn't mean others should or be justified as a form of social policy.

Many people have a cognitive bias that minimum wage workers are students or just starting out. They couldn't be more wrong. Living wages are about eradicating absolute poverty, not based on your age, or arbitrary probationary period.

DrunkCargo

They quit and say it was a mistake wage, offering to return for 135.00/hr...

Re Clef D'Or mentioned above, and I think kwflyer said AC is a member. That wording has long disappeared from ac.com's site, so does anyone know if they bother with the pin anymore? I certainly don't see any "concierges" wearing it, but big goofy disney-esque plastic nametags everywhere yes. They certainly do NOT behave anything like the concierges I frequently use at hotels and clubs. In fact, if they just put a decent UI on the terminal I could serve myself. OHHHHHH, that's the kiosk web thing...

Like, I'm not going to the airport later today and ask any agent/CSR "Hey, I feel like yamazaki 12... suggestions for a destination that has a few drams under $2500 that gets me back to YVR before tomorrow midday?"

songsc

Social policy wise, I agree that the minimum wage is not a good measure of living expense.

However, the reality is that AC and union set the rate to $13.5 and they can fill the positions. There are many reasons behind it.
1. Airlines have relatively thin profit margins.
Here's AC's data: https://ycharts.com/companies/AC.TO/profit_margin
Here's the data from SP500: https://www.yardeni.com/pub/sp500margin.pdf
2. Union: In order to pay the higher than market rate to senior employees, junior employees must be sacrificed.
3. The market: I agree many front line employees are underpaid, and I am happy to pay 5% more for retaining these good employees. But how about those passengers who only buy the minimum fares?
4. The nature of CSA jobs: I know when we travel, we interact directly with AC front line employees, and how a knowledgeable AC CSA can save our day. However this doesn't mean CSAs are very much responsible for the operation of AC or do they contribute much revenues/profits. Also the skills required for CSAs are much more common and easier to acquire than say, accountants and engineers, that's why CSAs don't have $50K to $70K starting salary.

Again, I am not trying to argue that $13.5 is livable or not. I am just trying to explain why CSAs get paid $13.5 as their starting salary.

I looked up some AC concierges' profiles on LinkedIn, so I am talking about AC concierges specifically, not minimum wage workers as a whole. For about 10 profiles I looked at, about 5 of them graduated from university in the past 5 years. Hence I said people who just started their career in my previous post.

flybit

reality is this job has changed so much, before concierge the job really involved doing things for AC and the customer, today the job has become hand holding and PR.
So AC is paying the lowest possible amount. Perhaps we should why is it still around, and how 90% of the job could be handled in a call center with better results and cheaper cost.

Or the real discussion should be how can we take Calins pay, and equitably spread 50% to employees.

Wpgjetse

As some one who is a longtime SE, you are wrong that they are basically a holding hand /PR position. They are usually amazing in time of need.

DrunkCargo

Time of pax perceived need is handholding time. The rest is typing on terminal.

Wpgjetse

NO - they solve problems. It's like American Express front of line service in time of need. Always have had my weather related problems solve with out waiting. Miss a connection, 99% of the time they meet me on the bridge with new flight info or hotel/food voucher.