AC No Longer Allowing Nexus as Sole Basis to Enter Canada?
#106
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 733
A lot of misinformation in this thread.
For CBSA immigration purposes when physically entering Canada, only your Nexus card is required if you are a citizen of the US or Canada. You can, however, be asked by an officer for your passport at any time. This does not make it de facto required. It is always best practice to carry your passport during foreign travel. A Canadian citizen can lawfully enter Canada with no documentation, after satisfying an officer of their citizenship; on the other hand, airlines are not offered the same discretionary authority nor are they compelled by your right to enter Canada (as the right exists between you and the government -- not you and transport companies).
Notwithstanding CBSA entry requirements, airlines are legally permitted to have more strict requirements, and can decide to require a passport even if the CBSA do not. Airlines are legally liable for failing to properly determine citizenship and subject to fines for failing to do so. If you want to fly with just your Nexus and not your passport, you should research the airline's ID requirements before booking.
Coinciding with the introduction of ETAs becoming mandatory last November, airlines are now required to provide more Advanced Passenger Information, with stiffer penalties for non-compliance. It is possible some airlines who have previously accepted just Nexus cards have decided to become more conservative or that airline staff have been poorly trained during the rollout. Just call the airline or always carry your passport with you.
Some overzealous users in this thread believe they have legal action against an airline who enforces its own Tariff. The airline is only legally required to accept passports.
For CBSA immigration purposes when physically entering Canada, only your Nexus card is required if you are a citizen of the US or Canada. You can, however, be asked by an officer for your passport at any time. This does not make it de facto required. It is always best practice to carry your passport during foreign travel. A Canadian citizen can lawfully enter Canada with no documentation, after satisfying an officer of their citizenship; on the other hand, airlines are not offered the same discretionary authority nor are they compelled by your right to enter Canada (as the right exists between you and the government -- not you and transport companies).
Notwithstanding CBSA entry requirements, airlines are legally permitted to have more strict requirements, and can decide to require a passport even if the CBSA do not. Airlines are legally liable for failing to properly determine citizenship and subject to fines for failing to do so. If you want to fly with just your Nexus and not your passport, you should research the airline's ID requirements before booking.
Coinciding with the introduction of ETAs becoming mandatory last November, airlines are now required to provide more Advanced Passenger Information, with stiffer penalties for non-compliance. It is possible some airlines who have previously accepted just Nexus cards have decided to become more conservative or that airline staff have been poorly trained during the rollout. Just call the airline or always carry your passport with you.
Some overzealous users in this thread believe they have legal action against an airline who enforces its own Tariff. The airline is only legally required to accept passports.
#107
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Programs: Miles & More
Posts: 102
Lots of misinformation here. Airlines or check-in companies have no say whatsoever in anything - they're meant to go by what Timatic says, because that's what it's there for.
All conformists on here with the "just bring the passport for the convenience of idiot agents" mindset are the exact reason why these agents will never learn.
As a Swedish citizen I'm allowed to visit the country of Georgia with an ID card instead of a passport. Some officers don't know this and insist on a passport. I'll tell them I don't have one and don't need one, and show a government website printout in Georgian pointing it out.
Does it cause delays? Sometimes. But I'm not obliged to adjust to their ignorance, on the other hand they're obliged to follow the law. And if I have to be the one to teach them the laws they're supposed to know by heart, so be it!
All conformists on here with the "just bring the passport for the convenience of idiot agents" mindset are the exact reason why these agents will never learn.
As a Swedish citizen I'm allowed to visit the country of Georgia with an ID card instead of a passport. Some officers don't know this and insist on a passport. I'll tell them I don't have one and don't need one, and show a government website printout in Georgian pointing it out.
Does it cause delays? Sometimes. But I'm not obliged to adjust to their ignorance, on the other hand they're obliged to follow the law. And if I have to be the one to teach them the laws they're supposed to know by heart, so be it!
#108
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Programs: Miles & More
Posts: 102
Had that been me in that situation, I would've requested the supervisor and shamed that agent in front of everyone for breaking international policies by not following the rules as pointed out in Timatic. Then I would've got his name and sent a burning complaint to the airline headquarters.
#109
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan, IHG, Enterprise, Avios, Nexus
Posts: 8,355
I'm not obliged to adjust to your need to "teach them the laws" and won't patiently wait behind you as you lecture some hapless gate agent. Do it on your own time not mine.
#110
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 2,494
But he is at the front of the line and it is his time. Your complaint is directed to the wrong person. The airline staff / policy is the problem.
#111
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YQB
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,139
Had that been me in that situation, I would've requested the supervisor and shamed that agent in front of everyone for breaking international policies by not following the rules as pointed out in Timatic. Then I would've got his name and sent a burning complaint to the airline headquarters.
#112
Join Date: May 2005
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K MM, BA-S HH-D, MB-G LT Sil, IHG-Plt, Nexus, Global Entry
Posts: 3,801
I had read years ago that Canada does not allow its citizens to hold two valid Canadian passports simultaneously but that there were a handful of exceptions specifically for the reason you mention. Apparently if you can demonstrate that you need to conduct business both in Israel and other countries in the Middle East, there was some way to get a second passport. Can't find anything further on that today... I wonder if it's still a possibility. Anyone have further details?
I tried to get a second passport two years ago and was refused. I was told by the passport clerk in person that it would be approved if I could demonstrate that my first passport was "busy" or unavailable by showing a receipt that it was at an embassy waiting for a visa application AND that I had another trip starting before my passport would be returned. I suppose a flight reservation for Israel would serve the same purpose.
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13F
#113
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,736
Timatic is a tool built by IATA to help airlines identify required documentation. It is not official. Canadian laws do not tell border agents to admit someone if Timatic says they're permitted to enter, it spells out the specific documentation that's required for entry.
If AC transports a passenger who doesn't have the necessary documentation, it can't say to CBSA "not our fault, Timatic said this guy was admissible!"
All conformists on here with the "just bring the passport for the convenience of idiot agents" mindset are the exact reason why these agents will never learn.
As a Swedish citizen I'm allowed to visit the country of Georgia with an ID card instead of a passport. Some officers don't know this and insist on a passport. I'll tell them I don't have one and don't need one, and show a government website printout in Georgian pointing it out.
Does it cause delays? Sometimes. But I'm not obliged to adjust to their ignorance, on the other hand they're obliged to follow the law. And if I have to be the one to teach them the laws they're supposed to know by heart, so be it!
Does it cause delays? Sometimes. But I'm not obliged to adjust to their ignorance, on the other hand they're obliged to follow the law. And if I have to be the one to teach them the laws they're supposed to know by heart, so be it!
Notwithstanding CBSA entry requirements, airlines are legally permitted to have more strict requirements, and can decide to require a passport even if the CBSA do not. Airlines are legally liable for failing to properly determine citizenship and subject to fines for failing to do so. If you want to fly with just your Nexus and not your passport, you should research the airline's ID requirements before booking.
#114
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Programs: Miles & More
Posts: 102
Airlines are obliged to comply with the laws in the jurisdictions in which they operate. Those laws require passengers to have the necessary documentation to enter the country(ies) to which they're travelling and typically require airlines to return passengers to their origin, if inadmissible, at the airline's cost.
Timatic is a tool built by IATA to help airlines identify required documentation. It is not official. Canadian laws do not tell border agents to admit someone if Timatic says they're permitted to enter, it spells out the specific documentation that's required for entry.
Timatic is a tool built by IATA to help airlines identify required documentation. It is not official. Canadian laws do not tell border agents to admit someone if Timatic says they're permitted to enter, it spells out the specific documentation that's required for entry.
No, those are people offering practical advice. Some of us are busy people travelling on tight schedules who would rather not have to spend time arguing with/educating MOLAs at the airport. I have had had to go through this with a check-in agent (WestJet at JFK) about the very subject of this thread, but only bothered to spend the 10 minutes or so to discuss it with her, get her supervisor involved, and get them to get clearance by phone from someone back in YYC or YYZ, but that was because I had forgotten my passport at the hotel and using my NEXUS card was the only way I was going to get back home that night.
The only way for that to happen is for agents to learn, and the way I see it, for that to happen they have to face situations where they realise "oh, turns out I was wrong here". Because if they keep thinking they're invariably in the right, then how should they come to the realisation that they sometimes aren't, given that the higher-ups clearly don't care much about educating their staff in verifying travel documentation.
I don't know what the laws in Sweden or Georgia are, and that's really not very relevant to this thread in the Air Canada forum. What's relevant is CBSA's rules; the post I quoted above was from a CBSA officer. But if an airline flying you to Canada demanded a passport when you thought the law entitled you to travel for less, you wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on, no matter how much huffing and puffing you did.
#115
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,736
Surely the carrier wouldn't be fined in that case (Timatic being outdated), now would they?
It's a shame agents are so ignorant, and people in situations such as yours back then would endure much better customer service and less stress if check-in agents actually knew the entry requirements and actually checked Timatic whenever in doubt. Unusual situations are bound to occur with the huge amount of passengers travelling, and they too should be properly accommodated just like the rest.
The only way for that to happen is for agents to learn, and the way I see it, for that to happen they have to face situations where they realise "oh, turns out I was wrong here". Because if they keep thinking they're invariably in the right, then how should they come to the realisation that they sometimes aren't, given that the higher-ups clearly don't care much about educating their staff in verifying travel documentation.
And should one encounter a MOLA at the airport, one can always take the expedient solution and report that agent later.
#116
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
Pure speculation - I think the need for passport is more with permanent residents w NEXUS.
Technically permanent residents can be denied entry or require supporting visa when entering Canada/US.
I can say for data point - having travelled with GHT Jr - they've been requiring my passport in both direction and the US side has been stamping every single entry.
Technically permanent residents can be denied entry or require supporting visa when entering Canada/US.
I can say for data point - having travelled with GHT Jr - they've been requiring my passport in both direction and the US side has been stamping every single entry.
#117
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE MM, Bonvoy Plat, Hilton G,Nexus, Amex MR Plat,IHG Plat
Posts: 4,417
I think @Adam Smith is correct with real world advice for air travel.
I do not seem to have any problems anymore using Nexus only from US to Canada other than some smaller stations. In fact UA seems to demand a passport more often. In all cases I have my passport anyway specially since I need it for the Global Entry machines leaving Canada to US.
International to Canada is a whole new discussion as several countries track only passport and visa for entry and exit. They do not care what your home country accepts, they need a passport. Examples in my recent travel include India and Taiwan and they both track you with fingerprint and exit stamps.
I do not seem to have any problems anymore using Nexus only from US to Canada other than some smaller stations. In fact UA seems to demand a passport more often. In all cases I have my passport anyway specially since I need it for the Global Entry machines leaving Canada to US.
International to Canada is a whole new discussion as several countries track only passport and visa for entry and exit. They do not care what your home country accepts, they need a passport. Examples in my recent travel include India and Taiwan and they both track you with fingerprint and exit stamps.
#118
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: トロント
Programs: IHG Gold
Posts: 4,817
Lots of misinformation here. Airlines or check-in companies have no say whatsoever in anything - they're meant to go by what Timatic says, because that's what it's there for.
All conformists on here with the "just bring the passport for the convenience of idiot agents" mindset are the exact reason why these agents will never learn.
As a Swedish citizen I'm allowed to visit the country of Georgia with an ID card instead of a passport. Some officers don't know this and insist on a passport. I'll tell them I don't have one and don't need one, and show a government website printout in Georgian pointing it out.
Does it cause delays? Sometimes. But I'm not obliged to adjust to their ignorance, on the other hand they're obliged to follow the law. And if I have to be the one to teach them the laws they're supposed to know by heart, so be it!
All conformists on here with the "just bring the passport for the convenience of idiot agents" mindset are the exact reason why these agents will never learn.
As a Swedish citizen I'm allowed to visit the country of Georgia with an ID card instead of a passport. Some officers don't know this and insist on a passport. I'll tell them I don't have one and don't need one, and show a government website printout in Georgian pointing it out.
Does it cause delays? Sometimes. But I'm not obliged to adjust to their ignorance, on the other hand they're obliged to follow the law. And if I have to be the one to teach them the laws they're supposed to know by heart, so be it!
#119
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
#120
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: ZRH / YUL
Programs: UA, TK, Starwood > Marriott, Hilton, Accor
Posts: 7,293
I think @Adam SmithIn all cases I have my passport anyway specially since I need it for the Global Entry machines leaving Canada to US.
Still carrying my passport anyways but I guess that technically, I could have done without it - showed the border agent only my Nexus card with the printout from the machine.