AQD: The view from a segment-running bottom feeder
Dec 18, 2016, 1:01 pm
#17
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYJ - Victoria
Programs: E50K
Posts: 453
I booked the 10-segment run using Google Flights. I checked the map that shows the fares for different destinations, and then started playing with the cheapest routes. I also booked well ahead to get the cheapest fares.
Google would not let me visit the same destination twice, so I could not do Kelowna (the cheapest run) two or three times. But I tinkered with the itinerary until I got what I thought would be the best matches. I also wanted to be on the same aircraft in and out, whenever possible, to avoid the risk of a misconnect.
After I had what I wanted, I used Google to get to the AC site and booked it there.
I had to get the boarding passes at the airport. (You can do YYJ-YVR-YKA-YVR-YYJ in one day, as an example, and the system is fine with it. Add six more flights, the system doesn't like you.)
When I got the boarding passes, there were no comments. At YYF the gate agent said "looks like you are having an interesting day". At YLW, I did not want to go out of security because it is such a long hike to get back in, but an AC person stopped me as I tried to take the "connections" hallway. I explained three times that I was connecting onto the same plane I just left, but I was not getting through to her, so I was about to give up and do the long run around when a gate agent came out and said "wow, what are you doing today? This is cool!" and then I knew I was OK.
In terms of the misery of the day: I graduated from high school in Kamloops, I used to work in Kelowna, and for a year I owned a house overlooking Skaha Lake south of Penticton. So I spent a gorgeous summer day checking out places where I used to live, and going through airports I know well.
A great day, and paying just $41 a segment made it even better.
Google would not let me visit the same destination twice, so I could not do Kelowna (the cheapest run) two or three times. But I tinkered with the itinerary until I got what I thought would be the best matches. I also wanted to be on the same aircraft in and out, whenever possible, to avoid the risk of a misconnect.
After I had what I wanted, I used Google to get to the AC site and booked it there.
I had to get the boarding passes at the airport. (You can do YYJ-YVR-YKA-YVR-YYJ in one day, as an example, and the system is fine with it. Add six more flights, the system doesn't like you.)
When I got the boarding passes, there were no comments. At YYF the gate agent said "looks like you are having an interesting day". At YLW, I did not want to go out of security because it is such a long hike to get back in, but an AC person stopped me as I tried to take the "connections" hallway. I explained three times that I was connecting onto the same plane I just left, but I was not getting through to her, so I was about to give up and do the long run around when a gate agent came out and said "wow, what are you doing today? This is cool!" and then I knew I was OK.
In terms of the misery of the day: I graduated from high school in Kamloops, I used to work in Kelowna, and for a year I owned a house overlooking Skaha Lake south of Penticton. So I spent a gorgeous summer day checking out places where I used to live, and going through airports I know well.
A great day, and paying just $41 a segment made it even better.
Dec 18, 2016, 1:19 pm
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYJ - Victoria
Programs: E50K
Posts: 453
To be clear, I don't believe that I took advantage of a loophole. I was well within the rules, and my AQD was well above the requirement for the status I achieved.
Yes, each segment on my 10-segment run was a Tango segment, and each counted as one.
I have also flown in paid J, and every segment counted as one. I did Tokyo in premium economy in September, at twice the price of economy, and every segment counted as one, just as an economy segment would have counted.
I was using cheap segments to catch up to my AQD, which might indicate that I overpaid for other flights in 2016. My AQD certainly didn't get that high on Tango fares.
Besides, AC did well by me this year. I spent $3,000 or so on LMUs, including (sadly) a couple of flights where not all the J seats were full. If there wasn't the demand to fill those seats, my money was pretty much straight profit for the airline.
Yes, each segment on my 10-segment run was a Tango segment, and each counted as one.
I have also flown in paid J, and every segment counted as one. I did Tokyo in premium economy in September, at twice the price of economy, and every segment counted as one, just as an economy segment would have counted.
I was using cheap segments to catch up to my AQD, which might indicate that I overpaid for other flights in 2016. My AQD certainly didn't get that high on Tango fares.
Besides, AC did well by me this year. I spent $3,000 or so on LMUs, including (sadly) a couple of flights where not all the J seats were full. If there wasn't the demand to fill those seats, my money was pretty much straight profit for the airline.
Dec 18, 2016, 3:17 pm
#19
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere between YXU and YYZ
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hilton Diamond AC*75K
Posts: 618
I still firmly believe AC could have accomplished the goal of status only being granted to profitable customers by not granting AQS for Tango fares. Whatever profit is gained over and above what the above policy would have accomplished is surely lost in the overhead of maintaining the AQD program.
Yes, you could get to SE with 95 segments of Flex G across 10 x 10 segment trips for maybe 7-8K of spend, but that would be an extreme outlier.
By my rough calculations the average person buying exclusively Flex or higher fares would hit each of the non-SE tiers in segments and have no problem also hitting the AQD. Even if you are a 'segment padder' and average 6 segments/round trip.
The exception is SE, which would probably fall into the 12-15K AQD range when they hit 95 segments.
Overall though, AQS for Flex and above only would raise the average spend of every level of Altitude tier - and I kind of thought that was the goal from a business standpoint.
Yes, you could get to SE with 95 segments of Flex G across 10 x 10 segment trips for maybe 7-8K of spend, but that would be an extreme outlier.
By my rough calculations the average person buying exclusively Flex or higher fares would hit each of the non-SE tiers in segments and have no problem also hitting the AQD. Even if you are a 'segment padder' and average 6 segments/round trip.
The exception is SE, which would probably fall into the 12-15K AQD range when they hit 95 segments.
Overall though, AQS for Flex and above only would raise the average spend of every level of Altitude tier - and I kind of thought that was the goal from a business standpoint.
Dec 18, 2016, 4:07 pm
#20
Join Date: May 2013
Location: west coast best coast
Programs: TINDER GOLD, STARBUCKS GOLD, COSTCO EXECUTIVE!!
Posts: 3,989
Dec 18, 2016, 4:37 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYJ - Victoria
Programs: E50K
Posts: 453
We agree, almost. But...
Yes, they would hit the non-SE tiers, but would the AQD match that tier? Not in my case.
Buying exclusively Flex or higher fares got me P25K and there was no problem, no problem at all, hitting the AQD. Based on AQD alone, I should have had E50K. And that is what motivated the hunt for cheap segments; so I could catch up to my AQD.
I can't speak for the average person, or for rough calculations, and of course I have only guesstimates for my AQD because there is a two-week-and-counting delay in posting the numbers.
I do have a spreadsheet. I know with certainty that my Flex fares YYJ-YOW/YYZ cost me a lot of money and gave me a lot of AQD without enough AQM or AQS to give me status that mattered.
I wish I'd done a few segment runs a few years ago... but until I saw the little counters on the Altitude site, and realized I was closer with segments than with miles, I'd never paid much attention to AQS. I was only concerned with AQM. My mistake.
Buying exclusively Flex or higher fares got me P25K and there was no problem, no problem at all, hitting the AQD. Based on AQD alone, I should have had E50K. And that is what motivated the hunt for cheap segments; so I could catch up to my AQD.
I can't speak for the average person, or for rough calculations, and of course I have only guesstimates for my AQD because there is a two-week-and-counting delay in posting the numbers.
I do have a spreadsheet. I know with certainty that my Flex fares YYJ-YOW/YYZ cost me a lot of money and gave me a lot of AQD without enough AQM or AQS to give me status that mattered.
I wish I'd done a few segment runs a few years ago... but until I saw the little counters on the Altitude site, and realized I was closer with segments than with miles, I'd never paid much attention to AQS. I was only concerned with AQM. My mistake.
Dec 18, 2016, 6:59 pm
#22
Join Date: May 2013
Location: YYZ
Posts: 585
I still firmly believe AC could have accomplished the goal of status only being granted to profitable customers by not granting AQS for Tango fares. Whatever profit is gained over and above what the above policy would have accomplished is surely lost in the overhead of maintaining the AQD program.
Those people flying on tango aren't actually flying. It's all make believe.
The day AC does this is the day I start flying westjet. And I'm pretty sure that not what AC wants considering I'm only a paltry E50K with >60k AQD spend this year.
Dec 18, 2016, 7:08 pm
#23
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,324
I still firmly believe AC could have accomplished the goal of status only being granted to profitable customers by not granting AQS for Tango fares. Whatever profit is gained over and above what the above policy would have accomplished is surely lost in the overhead of maintaining the AQD program.
Yes, you could get to SE with 95 segments of Flex G across 10 x 10 segment trips for maybe 7-8K of spend, but that would be an extreme outlier.
By my rough calculations the average person buying exclusively Flex or higher fares would hit each of the non-SE tiers in segments and have no problem also hitting the AQD. Even if you are a 'segment padder' and average 6 segments/round trip.
The exception is SE, which would probably fall into the 12-15K AQD range when they hit 95 segments.
Overall though, AQS for Flex and above only would raise the average spend of every level of Altitude tier - and I kind of thought that was the goal from a business standpoint.
Yes, you could get to SE with 95 segments of Flex G across 10 x 10 segment trips for maybe 7-8K of spend, but that would be an extreme outlier.
By my rough calculations the average person buying exclusively Flex or higher fares would hit each of the non-SE tiers in segments and have no problem also hitting the AQD. Even if you are a 'segment padder' and average 6 segments/round trip.
The exception is SE, which would probably fall into the 12-15K AQD range when they hit 95 segments.
Overall though, AQS for Flex and above only would raise the average spend of every level of Altitude tier - and I kind of thought that was the goal from a business standpoint.
So I don't think eliminating Tango AQS would do much.
I know people who buy exclusively Flex or higher. Not price conscious at all. The buy cheapest upgradeable fare. Sometimes they just pay for business. And in 95 segments or 100k AQM, they spend $10k.
Heck, you can buy business class on Air Canada for 10cpm, if that's your goal. And that's without even trying very hard.
Dec 18, 2016, 8:52 pm
#24
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere between YXU and YYZ
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hilton Diamond AC*75K
Posts: 618
There are people on FT who claim to only fly Latitude FPs and P fares who don't hit the AQD.
So I don't think eliminating Tango AQS would do much.
I know people who buy exclusively Flex or higher. Not price conscious at all. The buy cheapest upgradeable fare. Sometimes they just pay for business. And in 95 segments or 100k AQM, they spend $10k.
Heck, you can buy business class on Air Canada for 10cpm, if that's your goal. And that's without even trying very hard.
So I don't think eliminating Tango AQS would do much.
I know people who buy exclusively Flex or higher. Not price conscious at all. The buy cheapest upgradeable fare. Sometimes they just pay for business. And in 95 segments or 100k AQM, they spend $10k.
Heck, you can buy business class on Air Canada for 10cpm, if that's your goal. And that's without even trying very hard.
Using 50K, if you take 13 trips averaging 4 segments a trip to get to 52, at an average AQD per trip of $461 you will get your status. That AQD should be fairly typical of a average Flex ticket. (ie not all G) So i was off in that averaging 6 segments per trip would likely not get you there.
Dec 18, 2016, 8:57 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere between YXU and YYZ
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hilton Diamond AC*75K
Posts: 618
We agree, almost. But...
Yes, they would hit the non-SE tiers, but would the AQD match that tier? Not in my case.
Buying exclusively Flex or higher fares got me P25K and there was no problem, no problem at all, hitting the AQD. Based on AQD alone, I should have had E50K. And that is what motivated the hunt for cheap segments; so I could catch up to my AQD.
I can't speak for the average person, or for rough calculations, and of course I have only guesstimates for my AQD because there is a two-week-and-counting delay in posting the numbers.
I do have a spreadsheet. I know with certainty that my Flex fares YYJ-YOW/YYZ cost me a lot of money and gave me a lot of AQD without enough AQM or AQS to give me status that mattered.
I wish I'd done a few segment runs a few years ago... but until I saw the little counters on the Altitude site, and realized I was closer with segments than with miles, I'd never paid much attention to AQS. I was only concerned with AQM. My mistake.
Yes, they would hit the non-SE tiers, but would the AQD match that tier? Not in my case.
Buying exclusively Flex or higher fares got me P25K and there was no problem, no problem at all, hitting the AQD. Based on AQD alone, I should have had E50K. And that is what motivated the hunt for cheap segments; so I could catch up to my AQD.
I can't speak for the average person, or for rough calculations, and of course I have only guesstimates for my AQD because there is a two-week-and-counting delay in posting the numbers.
I do have a spreadsheet. I know with certainty that my Flex fares YYJ-YOW/YYZ cost me a lot of money and gave me a lot of AQD without enough AQM or AQS to give me status that mattered.
I wish I'd done a few segment runs a few years ago... but until I saw the little counters on the Altitude site, and realized I was closer with segments than with miles, I'd never paid much attention to AQS. I was only concerned with AQM. My mistake.
Dec 18, 2016, 9:07 pm
#26
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Air Canada - Aeroplan Black, AC - E50K, NEXUS/GE
Posts: 225
I will say I am like you and my flights from YYJ-YHZ every 1-2 months allowed me to hit 50K easily on AQD but not get there with AQM (though I buy more tango fares than I care to admit - yay being a student). So segment runs and a couple last minute business trips got me to 75K.
Dec 18, 2016, 10:06 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: YYJ - Victoria
Programs: E50K
Posts: 453
For the next time, we will need to think of something to scream out as we go through those doors. "Is this Castlegar?" might work, or maybe "Ogopogo is after me!"
Dec 18, 2016, 10:30 pm
#28
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: UA Gold, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold, National Executive
Posts: 35
Tango does and should credit at 1AQS. What I don't agree with is the fact that high revenue customers like myself with 20K AQD and only 25K AQM and 41 AQS don't even get E50K status.
Dec 18, 2016, 11:08 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2013
Location: YYZ
Posts: 585
Us short haulers are not good enough for status
Dec 18, 2016, 11:47 pm
#30
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222