BlondeBomber

Maybe AC really doesn't want our money after all. Easier to buy Flex and get upgraded from cheaper fares than it is from Latitude or Premium Economy!

yyznomad

It's pathetic how prolonged and rampant this issue has been.

Most of the call centre agents make crap up on the fly, simply refuse to keep up to date with the rules, or get crap info from their "internal help desk" (I'm not divulging anymore).

Anyway, what a long-running colossal joke.

Oh, and this is also my fault, according to the RCHHMP non-contributors on this forum.

Adam Smith

Actually, this would be a great example of AC being an excellent employer. Employees can be completely lacking in knowledge of a benefit that's important to AC's largest customers, treat customers badly and then hang up on the customers with zero consequences.

Sounds like a pretty good place to be an employee!

Travellin_man

Confused....does married segment logic apply to upgrades?

I have a booking YYC-YYZ-VIE. EF shows P=0 for both segments for the connection, but if I query YYZ-VIE alone P is available.

Should I be able to upgrade YYZ-VIE from Latitude, or not?

TM

yyznomad

In this case you can only upgrade YYZVIE separately since P is showing positive on EF.

Curious, what is Z showing for YYCYYZ?

Travellin_man

Z=4 for connection YYC-YYZ

Online tool allows me to upgrade YYC-YYZ, but not YYZ-VIE, hence my question about married segments.

TM

yyznomad

Please provide your flights and date of travel.

Domestic is Z or R
International is P or R

If P=0 (and assuming R=0) for the entire YYCYYZVIE direction, then you can't upgrade the entire thing based on P.

If Z or R is positive separately for YYCYYZ then you can upgrade that separately.
if P or R is positive for separately for YYZVIE then you can upgrade that separately.

Of course, upgrading separately means more credits.

The online tool is not always correct.

If you can give actual full EF loads for the individual flights and the combined (married segments), this will help paint a clearer picture.

Married segments exists but upgrading has nothing to do with it. If you see 0 for upgrade space (married segments or individual), then you can't upgrade. But if they exist individually then you can upgrade. This "looks" like it affects upgrading, but it is what AC is willing to sell for the products. Upgrading is an innocent bystander to married segments.

Travellin_man

144/898 xx Jun

yyznomad

I don't have an EF account so I used BCD, which is a bit clunky

Individually for June 21, 2019

AC144 shows J9 C9 D9 Z9 P6 R2 O9 E9 N9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W9 G9 S9 T9 L6 (any missing class letter means it is 0)
AC898 shows J8 C8 D8 Z6 P6 O1 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9 Q9 V9 W3 (any missing class letter means it is 0)

Since 144 by itself is Z9 R2, it is upgradeable on its own by virtue of R or Z.
Since 898 by itself is P6 R0, it is upgradeable on its own by virtue of P.

BCD returns YYCYYZVIE as:

AC144
J9 C7 D7 Z5 P5 R2 O9 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9
AC898
J8 C7 D7 Z5 P5 O1 Y9 B9 M9 U9 H9

So by virtue of P, the entire direction should be upgradeable as it is P5.

The online upgrade tool is known to hiccup and only look out for R, which shows R2 for 144 and R0 for 898.

My take is that you'll have to call in and find an agent who understands that international Latitude upgrades come out of P or R. Many agents, even after all these years, will still stand their ground and say ALL upgrades come out of R only for all upgradeable fare classes, which is patently false. HUCA is the name of the game.

Pro tip: If you find an anti-Latituder, either HUCA or tell them it is in ACpedia and advise they consult it.

Travellin_man

Thanks for clarifying - that's what EF says too.

Inevitably, the agent just told me I was waitlisted for YYZ-VIE because P wasn't available all the way through, and it couldn't be done segment by segment.

HUCA.

TM

canadiancow

Once again, I'll never understand AC.

If there was P space, I'd buy a P fare. But Z is just expensive enough that I'm using Aeroplan. So instead of getting some money, they're getting none.

Especially with the 77W... It's J28, they're willing to sell 21 seats in Z class. It's R9 I2. But they won't sell a single seat in P class?

RangerNS

Moving deferred revenue to actually revenue is still revenue.

canadiancow

I have a strong suspicion the deferred revenue is significantly less than a P fare.

canadiancow

The flight is now Z23 P0 R13 I1.

Say what you want about deferred revenue, there's no way eUps or Aeroplan miles are worth more than a P fare.

Adam Smith

Definitely. The revenue from an Aeroplan is going to be:

• Release of deferred revenue, likely at the cpm rate that AC receives when it sells points; for argument's sake, let's use 1.2 cpm
• Any YQ/YR imposed by AC; for an SE, the YQ is waived, but since the NAVCan surcharge is not real, that will count as revenue
• Any share of 3rd party surcharges that AC is allowed to keep as a processing/handling type of fee, e.g. it has been reported on this site that AC only remits something like $21 of YYZ's $25 AIF to YYZ

So, for a one-way SFO-YYZ redemption by an SE, revenue will be something like:

• 25K points * 1.2 cpm = $300
• NAVCan $7.50
• I'll ignore the last one since I don't know whether the US allows airlines to keep any portion the various US government-imposed surcharges, but it will likely be small if it does exist (maybe 2-3% of the amount collected)

So that's about $307.50 of revenue. I doubt there are any P fares for that route where base fare + YQ/YR is close to that.