Apr 2, 2017, 9:28 pm
Last edit by: Bohemian1
Moderator note: Any questions regarding availability/fare buckets on a specific flight or flights should be posted in the fare bucket check request thread. Any such posts in this thread will be deleted.
Q: When should I use eUpgrades, and when should I use AC Bid?
A: For starters, you can use both of them on a single booking. If one upgrade is accepted, the other is cancelled at no cost to you. One thing to consider is that eUpgrade priority is highly influenced by your Aeroplan Elite status and the fare class of the original ticket, but AC Bid is influenced by your bid as compared to other people. If you don't have a high Aeroplan Elite status, AC Bid may be the better choice for you.
Q: If I use a Bid Upgrade do I get additional SQM / SQD now for my flights?
A: No.
Q: If I use a Bid Upgrade on an International Flight leaving YYZ/YVR do I get access to the Signature Lounge?
A: No.
Q: When will I find out if my bid was successful?
A: You will be sent an email within 36 to 48 hours prior to your departure.
Q: If I am successfully upgraded, which baggage limit applies?
A: The baggage rules of the upgraded ticket apply. Note that this is different than eUpgrades, where the original tickets baggage rules still apply.
Q: When do I pay for a bid?
A: Your credit card is only charged when the bid is accepted, which will happen no earlier than 48 hours before departure. Note that if your card is declined, even temporarily for a fraud check, you will lose the bid and will not get another opportunity.
Q: Can I cancel an AC Bid?
A: Yes, but only until 48 hours before departure.
Q: If I cancel the booking after successfully bidding for an upgrade, or if I miss the flight, will I get a refund?
A: No.
Q: If Air Canada rebooks me on another flight, what happens to my AC Bid upgrade?
A: You keep it and Air Canada will put you in the upgraded cabin on the new flight. If the new flight does not have Premium Economy, or if there are not enough Business class seats, then your AC Bid will be refunded.
Q: I have a flight going from XXX to YYY on DD-MM-YY and the minimum bid is $ZZZ - what are my chances / what should I bid?
A: No one here really knows how Plusgrade as implemented by AC really 'decides' which bids to accept.
There are so many potential variables that it's best just to bid what you feel the upgrade is worth to you.
AC Bid Upgrade - FAQs
If your upgrade request is accepted, the fare conditions for the original ticket you purchased shall remain in effect and will be applicable with respect to cancellation policies, change fees, conditions for minimum and maximum stay, and rules relating to the accrual of frequent flyer miles. All other conditions will be per the upgraded fare class.
On the AC website:
"AC Bid Upgrade - Your opportunity to travel in a higher cabin class"
https://upgrade.plusgrade.com/offer/AirCanada
Q: When should I use eUpgrades, and when should I use AC Bid?
A: For starters, you can use both of them on a single booking. If one upgrade is accepted, the other is cancelled at no cost to you. One thing to consider is that eUpgrade priority is highly influenced by your Aeroplan Elite status and the fare class of the original ticket, but AC Bid is influenced by your bid as compared to other people. If you don't have a high Aeroplan Elite status, AC Bid may be the better choice for you.
Q: If I use a Bid Upgrade do I get additional SQM / SQD now for my flights?
A: No.
Q: If I use a Bid Upgrade on an International Flight leaving YYZ/YVR do I get access to the Signature Lounge?
A: No.
Q: When will I find out if my bid was successful?
A: You will be sent an email within 36 to 48 hours prior to your departure.
Q: If I am successfully upgraded, which baggage limit applies?
A: The baggage rules of the upgraded ticket apply. Note that this is different than eUpgrades, where the original tickets baggage rules still apply.
Q: When do I pay for a bid?
A: Your credit card is only charged when the bid is accepted, which will happen no earlier than 48 hours before departure. Note that if your card is declined, even temporarily for a fraud check, you will lose the bid and will not get another opportunity.
Q: Can I cancel an AC Bid?
A: Yes, but only until 48 hours before departure.
Q: If I cancel the booking after successfully bidding for an upgrade, or if I miss the flight, will I get a refund?
A: No.
Q: If Air Canada rebooks me on another flight, what happens to my AC Bid upgrade?
A: You keep it and Air Canada will put you in the upgraded cabin on the new flight. If the new flight does not have Premium Economy, or if there are not enough Business class seats, then your AC Bid will be refunded.
Q: I have a flight going from XXX to YYY on DD-MM-YY and the minimum bid is $ZZZ - what are my chances / what should I bid?
A: No one here really knows how Plusgrade as implemented by AC really 'decides' which bids to accept.
There are so many potential variables that it's best just to bid what you feel the upgrade is worth to you.
AC Bid Upgrade - FAQs
If your upgrade request is accepted, the fare conditions for the original ticket you purchased shall remain in effect and will be applicable with respect to cancellation policies, change fees, conditions for minimum and maximum stay, and rules relating to the accrual of frequent flyer miles. All other conditions will be per the upgraded fare class.
On the AC website:
"AC Bid Upgrade - Your opportunity to travel in a higher cabin class"
https://upgrade.plusgrade.com/offer/AirCanada
Air Canada Bid Upgrade Program
Nov 10, 2016, 3:27 pm
#31
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: YVR
Programs: UA Premier Platinum
Posts: 3,759
You have me intrigued. If the minimum bid is always accepted, it is essentially an LMU and I assume some seats get no bid. The LH model is a single sealed bid auction. For maximum economic efficiency, I would want a no-minimum, no maximum, all empty J seats are sold arrangement.
Actually, as I type, I realize that the auction might only be 'sealed' vis-ŕ-vis the other bidders. The airline could very well know how hot the bidding is in the 72 hour window and adjust the retail price of the J seats accordingly. Admittedly, I have not read the fine print to find out if a third party 'seals' these bids.
Actually, as I type, I realize that the auction might only be 'sealed' vis-ŕ-vis the other bidders. The airline could very well know how hot the bidding is in the 72 hour window and adjust the retail price of the J seats accordingly. Admittedly, I have not read the fine print to find out if a third party 'seals' these bids.
Nov 10, 2016, 3:30 pm
#32
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: Only J via Peasant Points, 777HDPeasant or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance and Narcissism.
Posts: 5,951
Nov 10, 2016, 3:38 pm
#33
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,302
You have me intrigued. If the minimum bid is always accepted, it is essentially an LMU and I assume some seats get no bid. The LH model is a single sealed bid auction. For maximum economic efficiency, I would want a no-minimum, no maximum, all empty J seats are sold arrangement.
There is an incremental cost of moving you from Y to J (they may have to cater an extra meal, you will likely consume more beverages, etc.), which would set some floor on it, though it would likely be around $50.
However, the bigger issue is that if you know you can always buy Tango and bid $50 and win, you'll stop buying Flex/PY+eUp or J. And this is what would result in a much higher floor.
They could do interesting things like not ranking bid. Who should get the seat? Latitude bidding $500 or Tango bidding $501? Though I'm not convinced they're clever enough to implement this in a sensible manner.
Nov 10, 2016, 3:50 pm
#34
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 57
[QUOTE=canadiancow;27464243]Won't happen.
There is an incremental cost of moving you from Y to J (they may have to cater an extra meal, you will likely consume more beverages, etc.), which would set some floor on it, though it would likely be around $50.
QUOTE]
Yes. I think I added too much personal-experience bias to this quick thought as I tend to only fly at peak travel times when Y is oversold and that incremental cost is incurred as a result of op-ups. I know that some of those op-ups are awarded based on status, but I suspect that a few have gone to the lingering no-status GTEs. In either of those cases, the incremental cost is borne by AC, not the passenger, in exchange for the opportunity to oversell Y without actually leaving any confirmed passenger behind. With an auction, the winning bidder pays at least some of that cost.
There is an incremental cost of moving you from Y to J (they may have to cater an extra meal, you will likely consume more beverages, etc.), which would set some floor on it, though it would likely be around $50.
QUOTE]
Yes. I think I added too much personal-experience bias to this quick thought as I tend to only fly at peak travel times when Y is oversold and that incremental cost is incurred as a result of op-ups. I know that some of those op-ups are awarded based on status, but I suspect that a few have gone to the lingering no-status GTEs. In either of those cases, the incremental cost is borne by AC, not the passenger, in exchange for the opportunity to oversell Y without actually leaving any confirmed passenger behind. With an auction, the winning bidder pays at least some of that cost.
Nov 10, 2016, 4:02 pm
#35
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 57
From the economic efficiency side, I am not thinking that a the R games should be played concurrently with the auction. However, in respect of the fact that some people will pay more to better position themselves for the R games, I would suggest that higher fare classes could come with a fixed amount of non-transferable bid money.I.e., A flex fare comes with $200 bid money, but if the flex buyer does not add $51 cash, he will lose to a Tango bidder's $251 bid. The R games already has a similar risk. I buy a flex fare, but cannot use my eUps because a Tango flyer took an LMU while R=0.
Nov 10, 2016, 4:29 pm
#37
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,302
Nov 10, 2016, 4:41 pm
#39
Join Date: May 2013
Location: YYT/YYC/TPE
Programs: AC SE, UA, National Exec Elite, Nexus, GE
Posts: 1,810
Do you usually take AC156? Or you prefer the day time flights?
If AC implements a no-floor bidding system for its J cabin, it would remove the incentives (for me at least) to buy Flex/Latitude/PE fares, and I fly more than the average SE. Think about how much money they would lose from people like me.
I am of the opinion that the minimum should be set at a level where the bidder wonders why s/he didn't just buy J in the first place.
If AC implements a no-floor bidding system for its J cabin, it would remove the incentives (for me at least) to buy Flex/Latitude/PE fares, and I fly more than the average SE. Think about how much money they would lose from people like me.
I am of the opinion that the minimum should be set at a level where the bidder wonders why s/he didn't just buy J in the first place.
Nov 10, 2016, 5:02 pm
#40
Join Date: Sep 2016
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 57
Do you usually take AC156? Or you prefer the day time flights?
If AC implements a no-floor bidding system for its J cabin, it would remove the incentives (for me at least) to buy Flex/Latitude/PE fares, and I fly more than the average SE. Think about how much money they would lose from people like me.
I am of the opinion that the minimum should be set at a level where the bidder wonders why s/he didn't just buy J in the first place.
If AC implements a no-floor bidding system for its J cabin, it would remove the incentives (for me at least) to buy Flex/Latitude/PE fares, and I fly more than the average SE. Think about how much money they would lose from people like me.
I am of the opinion that the minimum should be set at a level where the bidder wonders why s/he didn't just buy J in the first place.
I usually take one of the overnight flights.
The unknown demand function here is whether passengers like you and I who are regularly paying a premium to buy Flex or higher so that they can play the R games and maintain status would pay or more less of a premium in accepted bids if they bought tango and really did not want to stay in Y. Would you buy a $500 flex fare over a $250 tango fare if it gave you $250 of bid money (which may or may not be enough)?
But why give any bid money to someone who has to pay flex or higher because nothing else is available when they book? In that case, it is only to encourage them not to use another airline.
Nov 10, 2016, 5:04 pm
#41
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,302
Do you usually take AC156? Or you prefer the day time flights?
If AC implements a no-floor bidding system for its J cabin, it would remove the incentives (for me at least) to buy Flex/Latitude/PE fares, and I fly more than the average SE. Think about how much money they would lose from people like me.
I am of the opinion that the minimum should be set at a level where the bidder wonders why s/he didn't just buy J in the first place.
If AC implements a no-floor bidding system for its J cabin, it would remove the incentives (for me at least) to buy Flex/Latitude/PE fares, and I fly more than the average SE. Think about how much money they would lose from people like me.
I am of the opinion that the minimum should be set at a level where the bidder wonders why s/he didn't just buy J in the first place.
It has to be at a level where it does save money and entice people who would NOT just buy J, but not so easy to get that you can do it every time.
Nov 10, 2016, 5:24 pm
#42
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
The idea here is that AC will monetize a couple empty seats while collecting massive amounts of Data on how much pax would pay for the J cabin.
I'd pay good money to see that data.
Now, in true FT fashion, let's figure out a way to sabotage this.
I say we skew the data and bid the minimum on all our flights.
This is the best strategy because:
It'll skew their data downwards, making them think they should lower J prices.
The statistical analysis will lead them to believe that there's a potentially huge demand below their reserve price.
I can bet minimum + $1 and outbid everyone on FT.
I'd pay good money to see that data.
Now, in true FT fashion, let's figure out a way to sabotage this.
I say we skew the data and bid the minimum on all our flights.
This is the best strategy because:
It'll skew their data downwards, making them think they should lower J prices.
The statistical analysis will lead them to believe that there's a potentially huge demand below their reserve price.
I can bet minimum + $1 and outbid everyone on FT.
Nov 10, 2016, 6:03 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 11,874
Now, in true FT fashion, let's figure out a way to sabotage this.
I say we skew the data and bid the minimum on all our flights.
This is the best strategy because:
It'll skew their data downwards, making them think they should lower J prices.
The statistical analysis will lead them to believe that there's a potentially huge demand below their reserve price.
I can bet minimum + $1 and outbid everyone on FT.
I say we skew the data and bid the minimum on all our flights.
This is the best strategy because:
It'll skew their data downwards, making them think they should lower J prices.
The statistical analysis will lead them to believe that there's a potentially huge demand below their reserve price.
I can bet minimum + $1 and outbid everyone on FT.
Nov 19, 2016, 9:56 am
#45
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,917
This is Canada, and the majority of the population dislikes the "bargaining" associated with the purchase of a low value product or service. Canadian consumers want a fair price on consumer items so that they can just do the transaction and be done with it.
Yes, I understand the concept of bidding for an upgrade, but it will be perceived as insulting and unfair by many consumers. It will be labeled "unfair' open to "rigging" etc. Canada is a country renowned for its inherent corrupt fixed bidding schemes particulary on government service and supply contracts. It is not to be unexpected that the Canadian perception of it being a rip off will attach. Oh sure, someone will come along and say, relax, it is only the clearing of an inventory. Maybe so, but in a consumer product and services market it is all about peceptions. Canadians dislike this type of approach to clearing inventory. People know that retailers often inflate the cost of goods before the 50% off or the "clearance" sale. It's an issue of transparency and of perceived unfairness.
Sparseflyer offers a tongue in cheek approach, but it is more than that. The comment demonstrates what the Canadian perception is of this type of scheme: A scheme easily manipulated and played with and not one to be held in high regard.
I expect that this is another idiotic idea brought to us by the Pickle Group.
My impression is that Air Canada has assembled a crack group of idiots to come up with the most assinine and useless options that don't have an immediate physical cost, but will eventually cost the company significantly in respect to the erosion of its already devalued brand image and diminished market goodwill. It is called the Pickle Group because their claim to fame was the substitution of junk pickles for actual food in the MLL and then mocking customers by referring to the pickles as a "delicious snack option".
Yes, I understand the concept of bidding for an upgrade, but it will be perceived as insulting and unfair by many consumers. It will be labeled "unfair' open to "rigging" etc. Canada is a country renowned for its inherent corrupt fixed bidding schemes particulary on government service and supply contracts. It is not to be unexpected that the Canadian perception of it being a rip off will attach. Oh sure, someone will come along and say, relax, it is only the clearing of an inventory. Maybe so, but in a consumer product and services market it is all about peceptions. Canadians dislike this type of approach to clearing inventory. People know that retailers often inflate the cost of goods before the 50% off or the "clearance" sale. It's an issue of transparency and of perceived unfairness.
Sparseflyer offers a tongue in cheek approach, but it is more than that. The comment demonstrates what the Canadian perception is of this type of scheme: A scheme easily manipulated and played with and not one to be held in high regard.
I expect that this is another idiotic idea brought to us by the Pickle Group.
My impression is that Air Canada has assembled a crack group of idiots to come up with the most assinine and useless options that don't have an immediate physical cost, but will eventually cost the company significantly in respect to the erosion of its already devalued brand image and diminished market goodwill. It is called the Pickle Group because their claim to fame was the substitution of junk pickles for actual food in the MLL and then mocking customers by referring to the pickles as a "delicious snack option".