Jan 16, 2018, 8:46 pm
Last edit by: eracerblue
In all likelihood, airlines may be nervous about dealing with this issue firsthand. In lieu of this, perhaps we can formulate a step by step guide for pax significantly bothered by a dog, similar to how people choose to confront pax not using headphones, etc. THIS IS A DRAFT, OPEN FOR ALTERATION (NOT SUGGESTED FOR USE AT THIS TIME).
Pax procedure:
There's likely poor training for staff on this issue. A staff process should be something like:
1. Dog comes in off leash, or pax not holding harness
a. Is your dog required because of a disability? If yes, What work is it trained to perform?
b. Given satisfactory answers, but unsatisfactory appearance (no vest/harness) or behaviour of dog, lightly inform pax that authorities have been called in prior instances if the animal acts in untrained manner (eg wandering around the lounge). It is a public area, and the dog must remain "on duty".
c. In addition a service animal would have been registered ahead of time and would be indicated on the BP/ticket remarks. If it's not, then it's not a service animal and should never be off leash or harness.
2. Dog comes in on leash/harness
Same as above, though obviously can add the: should remain on leash bit.
3. Dog comes in in carry-on kennel
a. "That's a cute pet you have! Just so you know, our policy is X" (which requires your pet to stay in its kennel while in the food area, whatever)
b. Pax says it's an emotional support dog. "In that case, while outside of the cafeteria area, you can have it on leash or on your lap. But if it's wandering around you may be asked to leave.
And in the cases where there's an issue with a claimed service animal:
a. Check BP/ticket remarks
b. Remind pax that dog must remain on duty/in carrier etc as appropriate
c. Inform/remind pax that it is an offence to pass as a service dog
d. Call authorities
Or something like that. Pretty basic stuff.... although maybemployees thought they'd only be interacting with the well behaved pax?
Pax procedure:
1. Sees an unruly dog, suspecting it is not a real ESA or service animal
2. "Hi, cute dog you have there, is he a service animal?"
3a. "Cool an ESA - just so you know, ESA's really aren't permitted off leash or out of kennel unless beside you or on your lap, as it defeats the purpose. Even service dogs don't get to wander. I know you're legit, but I have a friend with an ESA and they say how people overstepping their rights make everyone look bad." Ask to see their BP if you're ballsy, which would generally say MEDA, not PETC.
3b. "Cool - service animals are expected to remain 'on duty', and it seems he may not be"
4. "I understand, but the only reason a service animal should be off leash and away from handler is because you are having an episode and he's going for help. You probably don't want someone calling emergency services unnecessarily." FYI This BP may say MEDA, maybe nothing.
5. Politely remove yourself.
6. If situation persists, inform MLL staff.
7. If you feel confident the dog is being masqueraded as a service dog, and you feel empowered for someone to have a very bad day, find the airport's non-emergency police line...
.
.
ALTERNATIVE PAX PROCEDURE:
1. "Hi, are you okay???!!"
2. "I was really worried and I have called emergency services. In <insert your state/province> the only reason a service animal of any type would be away from their owner is if they were trying to call for help. Are you sure you're ok?"
There's likely poor training for staff on this issue. A staff process should be something like:
1. Dog comes in off leash, or pax not holding harness
a. Is your dog required because of a disability? If yes, What work is it trained to perform?
b. Given satisfactory answers, but unsatisfactory appearance (no vest/harness) or behaviour of dog, lightly inform pax that authorities have been called in prior instances if the animal acts in untrained manner (eg wandering around the lounge). It is a public area, and the dog must remain "on duty".
c. In addition a service animal would have been registered ahead of time and would be indicated on the BP/ticket remarks. If it's not, then it's not a service animal and should never be off leash or harness.
2. Dog comes in on leash/harness
Same as above, though obviously can add the: should remain on leash bit.
3. Dog comes in in carry-on kennel
a. "That's a cute pet you have! Just so you know, our policy is X" (which requires your pet to stay in its kennel while in the food area, whatever)
b. Pax says it's an emotional support dog. "In that case, while outside of the cafeteria area, you can have it on leash or on your lap. But if it's wandering around you may be asked to leave.
And in the cases where there's an issue with a claimed service animal:
a. Check BP/ticket remarks
b. Remind pax that dog must remain on duty/in carrier etc as appropriate
c. Inform/remind pax that it is an offence to pass as a service dog
d. Call authorities
Or something like that. Pretty basic stuff.... although maybemployees thought they'd only be interacting with the well behaved pax?
Fake service dogs on board AC flight?
Jan 14, 2018, 12:00 pm
#76
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 336
As there are no clear guidelines from the airline/airport/jurisdiction on ESA behaviour, I'm sure some ESA's (and their owners) misbehave. However, as I have mentioned upthread a service dog is required to be "on duty", and we should expect at least that much from an ESA. Not the training of course, but not wondering around without a leash in th lounge etc.
If someone shows up at a restaurant not wearing a shirt, they do not get service and would be asked to leave. Simple. A misbehaving dog (of ANY kind) is no different. Unless AC wants to have a dog free-for-all policy in the lounge, entry with an unkennled dog must be an ESA or service dog. ESA will have not only paper work, but it registered on AC file. Simple.
I suspect this is actually a bigger issue than ESAs: people passing off their pet as a service animal, sometimes vest and all. Simply put, AC should not admit (lounge or plane) any "service" dog not wearing a vest.
So in large part it is an AC issue. Both on customer policy, as well as front line staff training.
Small, but growing irritant. And if people are getting away with poor animal behaviour + wholly fake service dogs, then it encourages others as well.
Jan 14, 2018, 12:09 pm
#77
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 336
Second, assuming you do believe there is a legitimate medical case for ESAs in some cases, do you agree with the (again apparent FT) consensus that the concept is subject to abuse?
My personal views on this are captured well by this NYT article. Some choice quotes below:
"Carla Black, a psychotherapist in Marina del Rey, Calif., began receiving enough requests for emotional support animal certification that this year she began advertising on her website. For $99, she provides an hour of her time, over the phone or Skype, and a clinical assessment, along with a prescription letter, which is valid for one year."
My personal views on this are captured well by this NYT article. Some choice quotes below:
"Carla Black, a psychotherapist in Marina del Rey, Calif., began receiving enough requests for emotional support animal certification that this year she began advertising on her website. For $99, she provides an hour of her time, over the phone or Skype, and a clinical assessment, along with a prescription letter, which is valid for one year."
In any event, sounds to me like Carla is keen to get her license suspended, or at least her name blacklisted by airlines. There's no way to provided the type of diagnosis required in an hour, much less over Skype.
Jan 14, 2018, 12:17 pm
#78
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What duration does such an assessment take on average to result with/without a diagnosis? Does this answer apply to all jurisdictions? Psychologist vs. General Pracitioner vs. Psychiatrist vs. etc.?
Jan 14, 2018, 12:48 pm
#79
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 336
Also worth noting that this is just the time/cost at the end of the diagnosis road. Many many appointments, costs, and years of challenges would come before, and often after such diagnosis.
Last edited by eracerblue; Jan 14, 2018 at 12:53 pm
Jan 14, 2018, 12:51 pm
#80
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Jan 14, 2018, 1:06 pm
#82
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Jan 14, 2018, 10:00 pm
#85
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Aren't emotional support [insert here] supposed to help relieve stress? I find my Emotional Support Wife usually has the opposite effect 
I do think that an Emotional Support Bottle of Scotch would go a long way towards relieving the fear of flying I seem to be developing though... I think I'll head off to see my doctor and get a note...
I do think that an Emotional Support Bottle of Scotch would go a long way towards relieving the fear of flying I seem to be developing though... I think I'll head off to see my doctor and get a note...
Jan 14, 2018, 10:07 pm
#86
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Aren't emotional support [insert here] supposed to help relieve stress? I find my Emotional Support Wife usually has the opposite effect
I do think that an Emotional Support Bottle of Scotch would go a long way towards relieving the fear of flying I seem to be developing though... I think I'll head off to see my doctor and get a note...
I do think that an Emotional Support Bottle of Scotch would go a long way towards relieving the fear of flying I seem to be developing though... I think I'll head off to see my doctor and get a note...
Jan 16, 2018, 7:02 am
#87
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There's an old joke that goes, you lock your dog and your spouse in the drunk of your car for an hour. You open the trunk.....now who's happy to see you?
Jan 16, 2018, 7:14 am
#88
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Pet people have figured out how to bypass the rules by getting letters from doctors and fake vests and certificates and flying on U.S. airlines is a giant pig pen. IMHO
But due to the U.S. Disability Act, no one can seem to do anything about it even if the authorities acknowledge they know about it.
This idiocy has made things more challenging for people who use seeing-eye dogs and similar. A real service dog is properly trained and certified and barking is not something they do.
But due to the U.S. Disability Act, no one can seem to do anything about it even if the authorities acknowledge they know about it.
This idiocy has made things more challenging for people who use seeing-eye dogs and similar. A real service dog is properly trained and certified and barking is not something they do.
This has 0 to do with people with seeing eye dogs. Really nothing. That's the usual strawman argument. This issue is really overblown though. I fly through most major US cities and it's not a common sight.
Jan 16, 2018, 7:23 am
#89
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Last edited by smallmj; Jan 16, 2018 at 7:23 am Reason: emphasis of quoted typo
Jan 16, 2018, 7:28 am
#90
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Actually, people's objection to it (I fly US carriers a lot) is the typical someone is getting away with something that I'm not doing argument. These things are still really rare to see on flights and at the airport. There's people's argument and then the real motive for it. The US airlines are far from pig pens. AC is great and all (particularly the MLL where you can pour drinks yourself), but US airlines aren't any different.
This has 0 to do with people with seeing eye dogs. Really nothing. That's the usual strawman argument. This issue is really overblown though. I fly through most major US cities and it's not a common sight.
This has 0 to do with people with seeing eye dogs. Really nothing. That's the usual strawman argument. This issue is really overblown though. I fly through most major US cities and it's not a common sight.
There are far too many people who have now found a way to get their pets in the cabin by claiming they are ESAs - with or without vests, certification or other. And now we have them in the MLLs. Unleashed. Near food stations.
If one is so frail as to need an Emotional Support Animal while travelling, then perhaps they should stay home. No telling what kind of unexpected emotions might occur should there be turbulence, or a lengthy delay, or a long line for the lav, or....