Jan 16, 2018, 8:46 pm
Last edit by: eracerblue
In all likelihood, airlines may be nervous about dealing with this issue firsthand. In lieu of this, perhaps we can formulate a step by step guide for pax significantly bothered by a dog, similar to how people choose to confront pax not using headphones, etc. THIS IS A DRAFT, OPEN FOR ALTERATION (NOT SUGGESTED FOR USE AT THIS TIME).
Pax procedure:
There's likely poor training for staff on this issue. A staff process should be something like:
1. Dog comes in off leash, or pax not holding harness
a. Is your dog required because of a disability? If yes, What work is it trained to perform?
b. Given satisfactory answers, but unsatisfactory appearance (no vest/harness) or behaviour of dog, lightly inform pax that authorities have been called in prior instances if the animal acts in untrained manner (eg wandering around the lounge). It is a public area, and the dog must remain "on duty".
c. In addition a service animal would have been registered ahead of time and would be indicated on the BP/ticket remarks. If it's not, then it's not a service animal and should never be off leash or harness.
2. Dog comes in on leash/harness
Same as above, though obviously can add the: should remain on leash bit.
3. Dog comes in in carry-on kennel
a. "That's a cute pet you have! Just so you know, our policy is X" (which requires your pet to stay in its kennel while in the food area, whatever)
b. Pax says it's an emotional support dog. "In that case, while outside of the cafeteria area, you can have it on leash or on your lap. But if it's wandering around you may be asked to leave.
And in the cases where there's an issue with a claimed service animal:
a. Check BP/ticket remarks
b. Remind pax that dog must remain on duty/in carrier etc as appropriate
c. Inform/remind pax that it is an offence to pass as a service dog
d. Call authorities
Or something like that. Pretty basic stuff.... although maybemployees thought they'd only be interacting with the well behaved pax?
Pax procedure:
1. Sees an unruly dog, suspecting it is not a real ESA or service animal
2. "Hi, cute dog you have there, is he a service animal?"
3a. "Cool an ESA - just so you know, ESA's really aren't permitted off leash or out of kennel unless beside you or on your lap, as it defeats the purpose. Even service dogs don't get to wander. I know you're legit, but I have a friend with an ESA and they say how people overstepping their rights make everyone look bad." Ask to see their BP if you're ballsy, which would generally say MEDA, not PETC.
3b. "Cool - service animals are expected to remain 'on duty', and it seems he may not be"
4. "I understand, but the only reason a service animal should be off leash and away from handler is because you are having an episode and he's going for help. You probably don't want someone calling emergency services unnecessarily." FYI This BP may say MEDA, maybe nothing.
5. Politely remove yourself.
6. If situation persists, inform MLL staff.
7. If you feel confident the dog is being masqueraded as a service dog, and you feel empowered for someone to have a very bad day, find the airport's non-emergency police line...
.
.
ALTERNATIVE PAX PROCEDURE:
1. "Hi, are you okay???!!"
2. "I was really worried and I have called emergency services. In <insert your state/province> the only reason a service animal of any type would be away from their owner is if they were trying to call for help. Are you sure you're ok?"
There's likely poor training for staff on this issue. A staff process should be something like:
1. Dog comes in off leash, or pax not holding harness
a. Is your dog required because of a disability? If yes, What work is it trained to perform?
b. Given satisfactory answers, but unsatisfactory appearance (no vest/harness) or behaviour of dog, lightly inform pax that authorities have been called in prior instances if the animal acts in untrained manner (eg wandering around the lounge). It is a public area, and the dog must remain "on duty".
c. In addition a service animal would have been registered ahead of time and would be indicated on the BP/ticket remarks. If it's not, then it's not a service animal and should never be off leash or harness.
2. Dog comes in on leash/harness
Same as above, though obviously can add the: should remain on leash bit.
3. Dog comes in in carry-on kennel
a. "That's a cute pet you have! Just so you know, our policy is X" (which requires your pet to stay in its kennel while in the food area, whatever)
b. Pax says it's an emotional support dog. "In that case, while outside of the cafeteria area, you can have it on leash or on your lap. But if it's wandering around you may be asked to leave.
And in the cases where there's an issue with a claimed service animal:
a. Check BP/ticket remarks
b. Remind pax that dog must remain on duty/in carrier etc as appropriate
c. Inform/remind pax that it is an offence to pass as a service dog
d. Call authorities
Or something like that. Pretty basic stuff.... although maybemployees thought they'd only be interacting with the well behaved pax?
Fake service dogs on board AC flight?
Oct 1, 2016, 12:57 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AC E35K, NEXUS
Posts: 4,368
I saw a woman at Loblaws with a dog with a service animal vest (easily bought with no evidence on the internet), and the dog was eating off the table in the dine-in area of the store, and sniffing around in a dog-like manner. A stunt dog trainer I remotely know (i.e., dogs who act in movies and live dog trick shows) puts a vest on the dogs to travel by air. While waiting in the boarding lounge, the dogs are often doing tricks to entertain the passengers...
A real service dog sits under the table and shuts up when not performing that service. That depends on what disability is being served, of course.
Depending on where the flight is serving, the Americans with Disabilities Act, as I understand it, does not allow a business to ask for certification of the service animal (dog or miniature horse permitted). However, they may ask the person what service the animal performs for them. There is another piece of legislation in USA that might alter those parameters, but I am not sure of the details. There was a tweetfest Friday for those interested: #acaa30ncd
Many people with disabilities are tired of people second-guessing our accommodation needs, and would like to see certification for the dogs.
That said, I would like to think that I "look normal enough", although I also am deaf. If I had a dog (I'm allergic, so no), you'd never know by looking at me why. It's not like the dog is a sign language interpreter. Dogs for deaf people work in the home (or hotel), not out in public. You travel with them to get them from point A to point B.
A real service dog sits under the table and shuts up when not performing that service. That depends on what disability is being served, of course.
Depending on where the flight is serving, the Americans with Disabilities Act, as I understand it, does not allow a business to ask for certification of the service animal (dog or miniature horse permitted). However, they may ask the person what service the animal performs for them. There is another piece of legislation in USA that might alter those parameters, but I am not sure of the details. There was a tweetfest Friday for those interested: #acaa30ncd
Many people with disabilities are tired of people second-guessing our accommodation needs, and would like to see certification for the dogs.
That said, I would like to think that I "look normal enough", although I also am deaf. If I had a dog (I'm allergic, so no), you'd never know by looking at me why. It's not like the dog is a sign language interpreter. Dogs for deaf people work in the home (or hotel), not out in public. You travel with them to get them from point A to point B.
Oct 1, 2016, 1:01 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
Oct 1, 2016, 1:24 am
#18
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Canada
Programs: Aeroplan E50/MM, HH gold, Nat Exec Elite, Kimpton Karma
Posts: 2,352
Complained in a US supermarket last year about this issue. "Support dog" not even wearing a vest. Manager knew this was not a legitimate support animal but said they couldn't do anything because there would undoubtedly be a lawsuit.
Question, is there a fee to bring a service animal onboard?
Question, is there a fee to bring a service animal onboard?
Oct 1, 2016, 1:33 am
#19
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE100k, Marriott Platinum, Nexus/GE
Posts: 219
That's a good news that AC limits it to dogs. The last thing I would want is to be seated beside an emotional support turkey...
Widow Takes Turkey on Flight For Emotional Support: 'She's Been There For Me'
Widow Takes Turkey on Flight For Emotional Support: 'She's Been There For Me'
Oct 1, 2016, 5:26 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,098
Here's a suggestion to better use your time. Monitor the passengers. Watch them as attentively as you watched the passenger and the dog. If any picks his/her nose, please come and inform everyone as you are doing here, because I believe it is equally important.
I asked a simple, innocent question. A pax boarded last night, with a service dog in a vest.
(Yes, I am familiar with service dogs, having travelled 2.5 million miles in the last 20 years. Don't presume people are idiots or have an agenda; you might find life is easier than way, you know?)
I couldn't hear everything, but the lead FA was questioning the individual;I heard her clearly make the comment that they didn't have the 'meta' information on the pax/dog, and she was going to talk to the cabin.
Then some sort of kerfuffle ensued. I was in the front and so I am not sure what transpired
And so I merely asked if this type of thing occurs.
Thank you for the insight everyone. Fascinating topic.
And TPP, do you always fly off the handle so quickly? You might consider some stress relaxation techniques before writing such a barbed response. Hey, maybe you should go pet a pooch! I understand that it helps to relieve anxiety!
Oct 1, 2016, 7:21 am
#21
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: FOTSG Tangerine Ex E35k (AC)
Posts: 5,612
When I last saw a dog in the line ahead of me (at checkin) they certainly seemed to be there quite a while, so I assume this was due to validation.
There was no kerfuffle or noise though, it just took a long time. I think as long as people get the appropriate documentation, it should be fine. To be honest as long as the dog is well behaved (which I find applies to 95% of service dogs as opposed to 10% of other dogs regardless of what their owners think and this includes many friends!) having it on board isn't a major problem. Obviously the dog should also be clean.
I do wonder how AC deals with it if one is allergic to dogs and gets seat allocated next to one. I mean having a customer weeping and sneezing for 12 straight hours could be irritating for many people.
Just my 2 cents.
There was no kerfuffle or noise though, it just took a long time. I think as long as people get the appropriate documentation, it should be fine. To be honest as long as the dog is well behaved (which I find applies to 95% of service dogs as opposed to 10% of other dogs regardless of what their owners think and this includes many friends!) having it on board isn't a major problem. Obviously the dog should also be clean.
I do wonder how AC deals with it if one is allergic to dogs and gets seat allocated next to one. I mean having a customer weeping and sneezing for 12 straight hours could be irritating for many people.
Just my 2 cents.
Oct 1, 2016, 7:38 am
#22
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,918
https://beta.aircanada.com/content/a...ce-animal.html
However, the 24 hour rule is applied for enroute changes etc. (This is what was explained to me by someone who has volunteered with an organization that provides guide dogs for the blind, and yes it seems unworkable, so perhaps there is wiggle room.)
However for USA, the requirement reads as;
If you are travelling on a flight segment scheduled to take 8 hours or more, you must advise reservations within 48 hours, so I read that as no advance warning required for USA flights.
Oct 1, 2016, 8:11 am
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mississauga Ontario
Posts: 4,098
My wife noted some additional details this morning that I didn't mention:
- the dog was carried in the arms of the person onto the plane; are most service dogs not in service and walking?
- my wife heard the FA ask for the paperwork for the dog, and the lady did not have any
- the FA did go in and talk to the captain after asking about the paperwork
- the dog was carried in the arms of the person onto the plane; are most service dogs not in service and walking?
- my wife heard the FA ask for the paperwork for the dog, and the lady did not have any
- the FA did go in and talk to the captain after asking about the paperwork
Oct 1, 2016, 8:27 am
#24
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ, MNL, WAW
Programs: Marriott Titanium, Lifetime Plat, (now an AC nobody)
Posts: 1,978
That's a good news that AC limits it to dogs. The last thing I would want is to be seated beside an emotional support turkey...
Widow Takes Turkey on Flight For Emotional Support: 'She's Been There For Me'
Widow Takes Turkey on Flight For Emotional Support: 'She's Been There For Me'
In addition, in light of what she has gone through with the death of her husband, I don't have any issue with this at all.
Oct 1, 2016, 8:36 am
#25
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: YVR
Programs: AC S100K
Posts: 978
Knowing that dogs and cats are allowed in the cabin, if you have a serious allergy, let AC know ahead of time and you will be accomodated with a buffer zone.
Just as you can't show up unannounced with a "fake" service animal, you can't decide you're seriously allergic to an animal once you see it.
Now I know many with pet allergies may not do this, but if they haven't reported their allergy ahead of time, the passenger with the animal will be accomodated with priority.
Oct 1, 2016, 8:39 am
#26
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
Then why should anyone have to pay to have their pet carried in stowage on a plane? Why not just bring them all on-board?
Oct 1, 2016, 9:51 am
#27
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: 1 thousand
Posts: 2,112
Complained in a US supermarket last year about this issue. "Support dog" not even wearing a vest. Manager knew this was not a legitimate support animal but said they couldn't do anything because there would undoubtedly be a lawsuit.
Question, is there a fee to bring a service animal onboard?
Question, is there a fee to bring a service animal onboard?
Of course there's a fine line between nicely asking what a service animal does, and just being plain rude (since there's a good chance it's a genuine service animal), but given how many pet owner's I've overhead talking about how they obtained fake "certification" for their animals, I don't think I'll hesitate to ask what duties a potentially questionable animal is fulfilling.
(It's quite bad: I've overheard friends of friends, people at my office, and even people in public talking about fake certifications just to avoid paying a pet fee.)
Oct 1, 2016, 12:59 pm
#28
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYC
Programs: AC Basic, UA MP Gold, Marriott Gold Elite, SPG Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 3,008
Accommodation for a Severe allergy to dogs was tossed out by the courts. The courts found there was insufficient basis to conclude there was evidence of a severe allergy to dogs that warranted accommodation under disability legislation.
Oct 1, 2016, 1:09 pm
#29
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
There are quite a few who don't want to pay the pet fee, or don't want their larger dog to go in cargo and they will claim that it is an emotional support animal. It also seems that some of them are able to get supporting documentation and certification from medical professionals.
These people are likely "related" to those who would use the handicapped parking spots because it suits their own personal needs at the expense of others. This is the world we live in and not all humans are honest and fair.
Air Canada and other airlines really don't want to be the pet police nor do the cabin crews want to be the judge of who is entitled and who is not. The person who is attached to their dog and wants it in the cabin with them, will find a way. At least AC has details of allowances on their website.
I'm sure some of you recall my photos in the LAX MLL thread where some woman and her dog (fake vest?) were parading around the food areas and quite a few of us reported it to the desk agents. She was asked to leave and refused and well, LAX right.
These people are likely "related" to those who would use the handicapped parking spots because it suits their own personal needs at the expense of others. This is the world we live in and not all humans are honest and fair.
Air Canada and other airlines really don't want to be the pet police nor do the cabin crews want to be the judge of who is entitled and who is not. The person who is attached to their dog and wants it in the cabin with them, will find a way. At least AC has details of allowances on their website.
I'm sure some of you recall my photos in the LAX MLL thread where some woman and her dog (fake vest?) were parading around the food areas and quite a few of us reported it to the desk agents. She was asked to leave and refused and well, LAX right.
Oct 1, 2016, 1:52 pm
#30
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,916
Here's an interesting anecdote from many years ago. At that time when arriving in YVR you had to walk down a long corridor in the basement to get to the customs hall. About half way along there was a revolving door to prevent people from walking back up the corridor the wrong way. I was walking along one day and spotted a blind man with a dog just ahead of me. I had no idea the dog was on the fight. When they got to the revolving door the dog didn't know what to do, so it sat down and stopped the owner. A couple of us had to stop the door and assist them through, and off they went on their way.
So service dogs on aircraft are nothing new.
So service dogs on aircraft are nothing new.