I suspect they don't know the ins and outs of the system like we do for two reasons.

1. They aren't paid enough to care
2. The vast majority of people would call in, say "I want to use my upgrades", and the agent would say "Okay done, you're on the waitlist", and the call would end with everyone happy

Then you have the people who call in and actually don't know how things work. Even recently on FT, someone said he strong-armed a concierge into helping him in LGA because he was entitled to it as a business class LGA-YYZ passenger. Malicious? I don't think so. But too many people simply think they know the rules, when they actually don't.

But then this is where a simple customer profile would be useful. Pop up a big alert on the screen when you call in, saying "this customer knows how the system works better than most agents, and we have no record of them trying to manipulate an agent into breaking rules". Now when you say "the policy is not to charge a change fee for an upfare" or "Latitude upgrades require Z on North American itineraries", rather than the typical "I work at the airport, you're wrong", they can go read whatever policy confirms it, and help you.

One of them is, but I find they're actually quite good as of late, albeit almost TOO respectful. Nervous concierges doing whatever I tell them (within the rules, but without the check-in agent talk-back of "your ticket probably doesn't allow standby") and thanking me for my loyalty eighteen times per call.

At one time airline employee were paid well. Today's wages are based on pax demanding low prices and switching airlines for $10. Just look at a few FT members, talking about how cheap they can get tickets to Asian, then complaining about the seats/lounge food ,etc. Once Westjet got a strong foot hold into the Canadian mkt, they themselves started pressure for AC to cut costs. You can't make it in any industry if you are paying 2 to 3x more labour costs.

You missed a tiny detail though and you're using average pax as an example of who will switch for a savings of $10

SEs, MMs and many J pax know exactly how things work. Further, AC promised this group improved services, be it onboard or with concierges or even at call centres.

I find that there is a huge discrepancy between the senior/long-time concierges and the newbies. While I think it's great that AC hired a bunch, all the "training" in the world on how to do the job will never replace the common sense and nuance that comes with age and experience.

I also find a huge decrease in the quality of the MLLs with AC playing around with adding food, taking it away, adding it again, then replacing it with cheap-sodium filled condiments.

So, perhaps along with eUp requirements and knowledge of the agents, AC needs to decide if some of their promised improvements (as a result of reducing the #s of SEs etc) will actually appear.

I'll move this conversation to a different thread when someone decides to look at the big picture of what the improved services and benefits will be and experienced by those who pass the SE $20K AQD test come Dec 31.

So it looks like Air Canada has extended the abilities of Tango and Aeroplan Reward tickets to use eupgrades until April 3rd 2017 according to the eupgrade chart on their website. They haven't sent any messages through Altitude/Email yet to confirm but just noticed it when I was browsing their site.

Indeed. And confirmed (!?!) that the old/new lower eUp credit requirements will remain for the while. Which is actually a significant and genuine improvement (and can't even use enhancement in the literal sense here). Just like I think they are idiots for devaluing IKK, I can't for the life of me think of why they won't take credit for making eUps better. They actually waste opportunities to have a positive impact on their customers.

They wanted 21 eupgrade credits and $600 on my YYZ-YVR redemption flight on 12/24.

$600!!! Are you kidding me??

It's all jokes.
Just stick with LMUing on AP flights... Usually pretty good value when offered.

What promised improvements?
I don't recall any, save an expectation from FT that things couldn't get worse. Oh, and don't read the R Space oddity thread.

Huh? I see 10 credits and $300.

On AP rewards or Tango fares,I have yet to try to figure out if there is any reliable way to approach eupgrade/added cost upgrades vs bidding vs LMUs. Using eupgrades with a known add-on is available first, then the bid, and finally LMU. There is little posted data on the bidding process but some of the data seems all over the map, particularly domestic looking high compared to Int'l. LMU's had always looked too high to me, but with an upcoming bargain basement Tango long haul, I have suddenly begun to take notice of the upgrade possibilities.

I just find out this extended date to April 3, 2017 this morning when I found out I can eUpgrade a G Flex more than 7 days out as a SE.

While I am one of those that do like the Tango upgrade-able policy, but I am not sure I really like the Add-On I do rather they go with more credits and at check-in / T-24 only. For Aeroplan bookings, I think that is fair to do Add-On, but not at the amount that they are looking for as some are almost the same as the LMU rate.

Gee golly whiz.

Will there be another extension from April 3, 2017? Maybe May? Hmm?

Gee whizzy. Makes me dizzy.

Lol it's been extended to May 14, 2017 now!

I love how they made new eup rules and then eliminated them with promos for 2 years.

What's going to happen the day they finally stop?

LMAO

great! I can maybe eUp my flight back from Florida, only $150 to eUp a K fare, but I paid just over 150 so a little over for business isn't a bad deal!

I suspect the speculation in the other thread about domestic PE is correct - They will revert to the 'new' eup rules when domestic PE is ready for sale.

Remember the only thing thats changing when the promotion ends is the ability to eup tango and AE rewards. The reduced credits, and expanded upgrade window were permanent enhancements to the program. It was just a little confusing as they were announced at the same time.

Probably went down like this:

(Late October 2014)
AC Management: We need to get rid of the cheapeners that are taking up potential revenue seats
AC Altitude Team: We can devalue eUpgrades to reduce cheapeners
AC Management: Good, do it! Throw them a bone on upgrades to PE where we only give them one decent meal.
AC Altitude Team: Done. Upgrades to J cabin now costs 50% more credits, and upgrades to PE is half of that.

(December 2014)
AC Marketing: We haven't sold many domestic PE seats.
AC Management: And we're paying compensation for cabin downgrades.
AC Operations: There just aren't many aircrafts fitted with PE seats that operate domestically. When we swap a wide body with PE seats for an aircraft without PE seats, downgrades are inevitable.
AC Management: We thought we would be able to sell domestic PE, that's why we told Altitude to devalue domestic eUpgrade program so significantly. Now you want us to admit that we f---ed up? No f---ing way.
AC Altitude: We can save your face by running an indefinite promotion, until all wide bodies are fitted with PE seats.
AC Management: Good, do it! Don't f--- up again.

(September 2015)
AC Management: PE retrofit isn't done yet.
AC Altitude: Got it, we extend the promotion.

(September 2016)
AC Management: PE retrofit isn't done yet.
AC Altitude: We extend the promotion again, and throw in co-pay for Tango and Aeroplan tickets.

(April 2017)
AC Management: We are ready to sell domestic PE again.
AC Altitude: When?
AC Management: Summer 2017
AC Altitude: Promo ends May 14 so that the FFs get used to the new requirement.

Disclaimer: No idea if the above is true. It was just for fun. :D

I wish some of these promotions would include crossing an ocean

sigh...

I think a lot of people are missing this very important point.

Yeah. And apparently it needs saying explicitly because every time it is pointed out that the reduced requirements/increased window no longer has a time limit half a dozen people keep the thread going as if it too changes on May 14th.

I also think too much is being made of domestic PY. Unless they are reconfiguring aircraft, it will be a very small % of routes that will offer this (same % as international J on domestic routes?). It may become more prevalent in the future but for now it is just not that big a deal.

+1 (meeeeelion)

Slightly less since the 763s aren't getting PY but have international J.

Do you work at AC?

The werd(c) you are looking for is 'plausible'.

I have a question regarding this. I recently purchased an aeroplan reward ticket with my mums miles, and went to my eupgrade account to see if it could be upgrade-able in future. I'm not actually interested, but was curious as it's new to me the potential capability (Also, on the flight I'll be on there's almost 0 chance anyway). It says it can't be done because I'd need to nominate the traveler (me) to be an upgrade nominee.

I then went to my mums upgrade account, and found it could be up-gradable. That seems odd, but also suggests for the first time that aeroplan numbers are now added to reward tickets. Given this apparent change, is there a way of changing the aeroplan number associated with the booking. Also, hypothetically, were an reward ticket upgraded with the bookers account, is that even OK given we're supposed to use our own credits for our own travel. Or is this just another AC technical fail again?

Good thing you added the disclaimer. For a min I thought you were serious about a "decent meal" being offered. :D

This is an unintended side effect.

When you book an Aeroplan ticket, the number for the account the miles came out of is added to the FQTR field.

There are all kinds of interesting and stupid issues with this, not the least of which is your inability to upgrade yourself.

I wonder why I could eUpgrade from X to J internationally as a SE, but I can't eUpgrade from X to PE. odd..... or maybe I can but the table in the preview is wrong....

Hypothetically though, lets say at T24 availability for upgrade existed between YYT and YVR and I logged on to mums account and upgraded it. Systematically that's allowed as she's E50 (I'm P25) and the itinerary is showing as up-gradable but would that have any effects (again I have no intention of trying). And is there a way of getting the FQTR field changed (by an agent for example) in some way?

Yes, you can get the FQTR field removed and replaced with your number in the FQTV field, but it requires an agent who is knowledgable enough to do it, and willing to.

You're implying that such an agent exists?

I've only ever encountered one agent willing to do it and that was in YHZ. I was turned away in YYZ and YVR a few times.

Yes.

So 1/3 success rate. Not bad I guess.

Did you say the same thing each time? what did you say?

"I'm being denied status benefits because my Aeroplan number is not on this PNR. I was told to ask for you to delete the FQTR field, then add my number into the FQTV field."

Well one success vs a few fails in other locations leads me to guess it's more like 1/6 ...

I just rang Air Canada, was on hold for 80 minutes. Got an agent who said it wasn't possible. I quoted this exact message from you, and 30 seconds later, BINGO.

She then thanked me for teaching her how to do it. :p

Good to know FT continues our quest to up-train AC call center staff. Reinforces my suggestion to have the staff browse it. But then, they might stop them doing things they're not supposed too as well :)