Implications of AC selling Aeroplan?
Jan 17, 03, 7:46 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 97
Implications of AC selling Aeroplan?
If AC sells Aeroplan, any thoughts on what will happen to our FF miles? FF status?
http://www.nationalpost.com/financia...-4A96EECA5C7B}
Don't the rules of the Aeroplan program give the right to Aeroplan to changes the program at any time, in any way, etc?
Will we lose our miles? Could we use our miles for merchandise? Other thoughts?
[This message has been edited by Expatriate (edited 01-17-2003).]
http://www.nationalpost.com/financia...-4A96EECA5C7B}
Don't the rules of the Aeroplan program give the right to Aeroplan to changes the program at any time, in any way, etc?
Will we lose our miles? Could we use our miles for merchandise? Other thoughts?
[This message has been edited by Expatriate (edited 01-17-2003).]
Jan 17, 03, 8:03 am
#3
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: AC*SE MM, Hilton Gold, Marriott Plat
Posts: 3,373
I think the key phrase is "Air Canada ... is said to be on the verge of a deal to sell part of its popular Aeroplan frequent-flyer program". I'd put "part" in bold if I'd ever taken the time to figure out how to do that!
As I've said many times, I think there is a real conflict between the frequent flyer and the frequent buyer parts of Aeroplan. I think it would help us if AC sold off the "buyer" part and concentrated on improving the "flyer" part - upgrades, lounges, instant KK, etc.
If AC didn't own AP, then that would also potentially open the door to rewards on non-*A airlines like WestJet and AA.
As long as I'm talking about instant KK: A simple idea would be to allow members to use status miles for "anytime" flights. Bonus/Aerogold/Future shop/etc miles would have the current rules. Too hard to implement?
As I've said many times, I think there is a real conflict between the frequent flyer and the frequent buyer parts of Aeroplan. I think it would help us if AC sold off the "buyer" part and concentrated on improving the "flyer" part - upgrades, lounges, instant KK, etc.
If AC didn't own AP, then that would also potentially open the door to rewards on non-*A airlines like WestJet and AA.
As long as I'm talking about instant KK: A simple idea would be to allow members to use status miles for "anytime" flights. Bonus/Aerogold/Future shop/etc miles would have the current rules. Too hard to implement?
Jan 17, 03, 8:45 am
#5
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: YVR
Posts: 9,999
I'm more interested in the implications of calling your frequent flyer program non-core. Seems to me you can't get much closer to the "core" than your most frequent flyers.
I'd also consider destina to be a liability as opposed to an asset.
I'd also consider destina to be a liability as opposed to an asset.
Jan 17, 03, 1:39 pm
#6
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Programs: Amex Platinum, SPG Gold, Hertz 5*, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 9,758
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Ken hAAmer:
I'm more interested in the implications of calling your frequent flyer program non-core. Seems to me you can't get much closer to the "core" than your most frequent flyers.
I'd also consider destina to be a liability as opposed to an asset.</font>
I'm more interested in the implications of calling your frequent flyer program non-core. Seems to me you can't get much closer to the "core" than your most frequent flyers.
I'd also consider destina to be a liability as opposed to an asset.</font>
Jan 18, 03, 4:15 am
#7
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: YYJ
Posts: 3,956
What if someone with deep pockets purchased both Jazz and aeroplan? They could then build up Jazz to a proper national/international airline, cut ties with AC and have almost all of AC's former customer base. With very little debt. Onex perhaps?
Jan 18, 03, 6:18 am
#8
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,014
You can just bet that Jazz would have so much debt tied to it that there is no way it could remain in the air.
Excepting the statement above, you already would have a national airline, albeit one that does not fly coast to coast non-stop.
Excepting the statement above, you already would have a national airline, albeit one that does not fly coast to coast non-stop.
Jan 18, 03, 8:36 am
#9
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: GRIMSBY, Ontario CANADA
Posts: 811
Didn't AC try to sell Jazz a few years back and couldn't find any buyers? I can't believe based upon the current state of the airline industry that anyone, at least with deep pockets would step forward now.
AP is the a very valuable asset to CIBC. Didn't they sign a long term deal with AC back during the Onex takeover attempt to protect Aerogold/AP going to RBC?
AP is the a very valuable asset to CIBC. Didn't they sign a long term deal with AC back during the Onex takeover attempt to protect Aerogold/AP going to RBC?
Jan 18, 03, 8:49 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chilling with penguins
Posts: 13,036
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by B767:
Didn't AC try to sell Jazz a few years back and couldn't find any buyers? I can't believe based upon the current state of the airline industry that anyone, at least with deep pockets would step forward now.</font>
Didn't AC try to sell Jazz a few years back and couldn't find any buyers? I can't believe based upon the current state of the airline industry that anyone, at least with deep pockets would step forward now.</font>
[edited for grammar]
[This message has been edited by YOWkid (edited 01-18-2003).]
Jan 18, 03, 8:54 am
#11
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: GRIMSBY, Ontario CANADA
Posts: 811
You are correct, they tried to sell CP Regional for 100+ million which would have been a good price considering they only paid approx 90 million for all of CP inlcuding the mainline and regional. I also thought that they had discussed/floated the idea of selling/spinning off Air Alliance, Air Nova, Air Ont and Air BC. Either way with Jazz 4th Q traffic down 30% I can't see anyone stepping up to the plate.
[This message has been edited by B767 (edited 01-18-2003).]
[This message has been edited by B767 (edited 01-18-2003).]
Jan 19, 03, 3:12 am
#13
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: YYJ
Posts: 3,956
Possibly, Ace, but for how long? When Pepsi spun off it's fast food restaurants (Pizza Hut, KFC, Taco Bell), AFAIK the only agreement was that Pepsi would remain the "prefered" beverage supplier for a renewable term. I think I read that the agreement's already been renewed, and the spinoff didn't happen that long ago. So the term must be short.
Say the aeroplan agreement states a period of ten years. That's plenty of time for Jazz to grow under the AC umbrella with the new revenue model and AC slowly dropping domestic routes. After ten years growth... pop... you buy or lease a couple extra aircraft, go transcon, maybe expand on the US routes, cut the codeshares with AC, keep all the aeroplan loyalty, join oneworld and BAM. No more AC. Hey, and if you managed to purchase the Canadian Regional name along with jazz, switch back to that but use really small type for "Regional". Long live the goose
Say the aeroplan agreement states a period of ten years. That's plenty of time for Jazz to grow under the AC umbrella with the new revenue model and AC slowly dropping domestic routes. After ten years growth... pop... you buy or lease a couple extra aircraft, go transcon, maybe expand on the US routes, cut the codeshares with AC, keep all the aeroplan loyalty, join oneworld and BAM. No more AC. Hey, and if you managed to purchase the Canadian Regional name along with jazz, switch back to that but use really small type for "Regional". Long live the goose
Jan 20, 03, 4:31 pm
#14
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,014
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by B767:
Either way with Jazz 4th Q traffic down 30% I can't see anyone stepping up to the plate.</font>
Either way with Jazz 4th Q traffic down 30% I can't see anyone stepping up to the plate.</font>
Jan 27, 03, 11:24 am
#15
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: YYJ
Posts: 3,956
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by cedric:
What if someone with deep pockets purchased both Jazz and aeroplan? They could then build up Jazz to a proper national/international airline, cut ties with AC and have almost all of AC's former customer base. With very little debt. Onex perhaps?</font>
What if someone with deep pockets purchased both Jazz and aeroplan? They could then build up Jazz to a proper national/international airline, cut ties with AC and have almost all of AC's former customer base. With very little debt. Onex perhaps?</font>
Well, I got part of it right
