yulred

Incorrect. The latter approach would be preferred because it mitigates the risk of a downturn, and promises higher profitability in an upturn. The costs associated with it are incremental, which is why it's so popular.

It would, frankly, be silly not to aim for maximum flexibility. The denser configuration is far, far superior. Using your example, in a low demand situation, you would only be able to sell 100 seats for $250. On a HD plane, you can sell 100 seats for $250 and 100 for $125. Which makes more sense/money?

The problem now is that it may be pushing it to far. Democratic governments represent the people, and when you push the latter around, regulation follows.

montezume

Why should cruise ships be required to carry enough life rafts for their occupants? If people want to pay less and risk drowning in the case of an encounter with Leonardo DiCaprio and an iceberg, they should not be whining about it while forking over their dollars.

superangrypenguin

I'm sorry, but what government has stepped into deal with cramped seats?

Cite please. I'd be most curious to know.

And let's be frank, the Canadian government would never step in to deal with this. Their politicians fly in J

montezume

He never said that government has dealt with it, only that if things keep pushing in this direction, it's a possibility. If a few people died and enough public outrage was generated, I would be extremely surprised if they didn't step in.

superangrypenguin

Died? Over a cramped seat? (yes, and point taken)

I remember being on a schoolbus. No seat belts and it was more cramped than on AC.

And let me be brutally clear in this case which is why it has me riled up.

Air Canada is responsible, for the large part, for my chronic back ache, and partly my employer too. I spent the first year or so in Y, and AC wrecked my back.

I don't go around whining to the media. It was my fault I didn't pay for J as my employer was too cheap to pay for J.

I am not half dead either. What should I do? Sue for damages?

ffsim

There's nothing wrong with maximizing profit. At the same time, companies shouldn't maximize profit at the expense of customer safety. montezume's life raft example perfectly illustrates this point.

Customers shouldn't be allowed to pay $90 for standing room only because it's demonstrably unsafe. That's why airlines are forced to offer a maximum number of seats based on a regulatory body's rules.

Airlines shouldn't sell seats which are shown to cause injury.

If medical studies can demonstrate that today's typical Y seat may cause injury, airlines should be forced to rethink their minimum seat dimensions in consequence.

I hope that's clear enough.

Stranger

I had a colleague (whom I did not know personally) who died from DVT after flying back from SYD. I believe it was on AC.

And that was before they introduced economy minus.

songsc

One thing to note is that the market, or the customers have allowed the existence of HD configuration. AC introduced it, and people buy it.

I pay for J and PY out of my own pocket isn't because I have too much money to throw, it is because Y is below my standard. If I can't pay for J/PY, then I don't fly.

superangrypenguin

Ok yes, thank you for the clarification. I mean, from what I understand, the current legislation specifies that all pax must be able to egress an aircraft within 90 seconds with half of the slides functional in an emergency.

I feel that the issue of seat dimensions will never be addressed because passengers have different sizes.

What works for a 6 foot 5 individual will work for a 5 foot 4 individual but not vice versa.

As long as the Ryanair's of the world exist...AC will never have to deal with this issue.

If people start dying left right and center than AC will face heat from the government. until then...

montezume

The majority of RyanAir flights are under 4 hours. If you read the article, you would see that health problems start to occur after 4 hours.

Wpgjetse

?????? Aircraft also have the same requirement for life rafts and they don't always fly over water.

ffsim

The point is both airplanes and sea vessels are mandated to carry safety equipment despite it meaning a hit to profits.

canadiancow

But when you ask a passenger if they'd take one inch less to save $10, they probably would most of the time.

I consider this like the sale of cigarettes. Why is it that selling a 17" seat is unsafe, but selling a pack of cigarettes is perfectly legal, with the only restriction being an age of 18 or 19?

The science behind cigarette health is sound. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence about airplane seats.

canadiancow

Or just don't use terms that suggest "tons of extra money", when the reality is it's a small surcharge.

YOWgary

Whoever told you this shouldn't be practising health care.

Can flying endless hours in Y exacerbate a back problem you already had? Yes, absolutely.

Can flying endless hours in Y combine with existing poor posture or muscular imbalances to be the first thing that creates noticeable symptoms of a back problem you already had? Yes, absolutely.

Do ever-shrinking Y seats mean that people with back problems have to take extra care to stretch, hydrate and medicate to fly safely? Yes, absolutely.

Did Air Canada wreck your back? Absolutely not.

If your spinal health is such that you can't survive 75K worth of flying in a Y seat, you were never going to survive 75K worth of flying in a 320 J seat, or a Studio Pod, without a similar outcome.

If your spinal health is such that you can't survive 75K worth of flying, maybe you'd be more comfortable in a job that didn't require you to spend that much time stuffed into a chair with poor lumbar support and limited options to move around and stretch.

I lost a once-in-five-years client last year because I simply couldn't hold up to the 30 hours a week of flying the job required. Not terribly different than losing a job unloading boxes in a warehouse that required lifting heavy boxes all day.

You literally just finished saying your employer was responsible for ruining your health, by requiring you to fly a ton for work, but not buying you J seats.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that every single Member of Parliament qualifies for 100K on segments alone.