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Originally Posted by vernonc
(Post 30332402)
YVR for example is always short staffed and the connection security from International to domestic (non OSS) has been a disaster every flight I have taken - long lines, putting all liquids thru the liquid scan incl duty free sealed bottles, swabbing all electronics, swabbing passengers and not having enough staff or scanners to do all of this. Its probably costing the airlines incl AC money due to delayed passengers with their bags in the hold and pax held up at security. Its not the checked bag or customs/immig that's the issue, it is the security lines. For my next trip to TPE next month, I will look for a connection in Asia and then direct to YYZ rather than connect thru YVR. Its faster, better lounges, etc. I do not really want to spend 30-40 mins in a line.
If AC wants to be considered more for International traffic, their hubs need to transfer better, with or without OSS. For connecting passengers from many flights at YVR, there should be no need to see a CATSA staffer. The airport has had its ITD (Int to Domestic) operation* running all summer and for many incoming AC and WS flights (from US, EU and Australia), there's no requirement to pass through additional security lines. There will be more origin cities included in the program to come - perhaps including TPE - but for now, the airline and the airport are offering you about as streamlined a connection process as you'll find anywhere else. And when the new CATSA-Plus lines are installed in the C pier (this requires knocking out some walls and rejigging the security area), it'll get faster still. So go ahead and try to find a smoother, faster connection in Asia, but I'd place money that you'll be back through YVR again... Or...people could opt for one of the other carriers that don't arrive at the peak morning AC Asia rush. * word of caution: this ITD operation involves a bus. Many AC FT members are unreasonably opposed to busses, or indeed going outside, but perhaps that 30-40 min in line in a stuffy corridor is more enjoyable. |
Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
(Post 30333423)
Most travelers don't seem to understand that it's not the screening staff that create the delays, it's the pace of the machines themselves and the inability of people in line to be ready to place their items on trays as they arrive - rather than get to the conveyor and only then begin to unzip jackets, remove coins from pockets, unpack laptops etc. I have never seen CATSA staff allow regular passengers into a priority screening or NEXUS line, but my anecdote is simply that.
For connecting passengers from many flights at YVR, there should be no need to see a CATSA staffer. The airport has had its ITD (Int to Domestic) operation* running all summer and for many incoming AC and WS flights (from US, EU and Australia), there's no requirement to pass through additional security lines. There will be more origin cities included in the program to come - perhaps including TPE - but for now, the airline and the airport are offering you about as streamlined a connection process as you'll find anywhere else. And when the new CATSA-Plus lines are installed in the C pier (this requires knocking out some walls and rejigging the security area), it'll get faster still. So go ahead and try to find a smoother, faster connection in Asia, but I'd place money that you'll be back through YVR again... Or...people could opt for one of the other carriers that don't arrive at the peak morning AC Asia rush. * word of caution: this ITD operation involves a bus. Many AC FT members are unreasonably opposed to busses, or indeed going outside, but perhaps that 30-40 min in line in a stuffy corridor is more enjoyable. C gates security at YVR regularly sends non-Nexus pax to the Nexus lines as they try to have the same number of people in all lines. Most of my flights out of YVR to YYZ are late evening or red eye. YYZ International security does not have a dedicated Nexus line, the line just gets you to the front similar to the priority line, then you just get lumped into whichever lineup is shortest. I have used both YYZ and YVR a few times this year. The delay at security for connecting pax at YVR is very much due to the security and not due to passengers. As I said there was somewhere between 10-15 people ahead of me and it still took close to one hour. The reason was that they had limited staff, only one scanner/line was open, they did the liquid check on all liquids incl sealed duty free, they did the swab test on all electronics (NBs, tablets) and swabbed a lot of pax incl me. They have just one liquid scanner and that machine takes a heck of a long time. Last time it would not clear my duty free scotch and I had to have the concierge take my bag and check it for me to go thru. It is a gong show and has nothing to do with the passengers who were dutifully following all orders to remove metal, shoes, etc. And I have done smoother connections - in ICN, HKG and NRT to name a few. And I have no aversion to buses. Or BMWs if AC wants to use those to ferry me around. |
Originally Posted by ChrisA330
(Post 30333364)
I was speaking specifically about YHZ in my last post.
YYZ and a few other airports have the facilities to through check a bag from an international destination without a passenger having to pick it up to go through Customs. That is a prerequisite to OSS. |
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Originally Posted by vernonc
(Post 30333599)
I would respectfully disagree.
C gates security at YVR regularly sends non-Nexus pax to the Nexus lines as they try to have the same number of people in all lines. Most of my flights out of YVR to YYZ are late evening or red eye. YYZ International security does not have a dedicated Nexus line, the line just gets you to the front similar to the priority line, then you just get lumped into whichever lineup is shortest. I have used both YYZ and YVR a few times this year.
Originally Posted by vernonc
(Post 30333599)
The delay at security for connecting pax at YVR is very much due to the security and not due to passengers. As I said there was somewhere between 10-15 people ahead of me and it still took close to one hour. The reason was that they had limited staff, only one scanner/line was open, they did the liquid check on all liquids incl sealed duty free, they did the swab test on all electronics (NBs, tablets) and swabbed a lot of pax incl me. They have just one liquid scanner and that machine takes a heck of a long time. Last time it would not clear my duty free scotch and I had to have the concierge take my bag and check it for me to go thru. It is a gong show and has nothing to do with the passengers who were dutifully following all orders to remove metal, shoes, etc.
And I have done smoother connections - in ICN, HKG and NRT to name a few.
Originally Posted by vernonc
(Post 30333599)
And I have no aversion to buses. Or BMWs if AC wants to use those to ferry me around.
I don't drive a BMW (completely wrong demographic), but do believe that my transport is by far the quickest and most direct way to get around YVR. |
The problem I see with this setup at YYZ is you have SEVEN different types of passengers flowing and criss-crossing each other through one small area.
- City to International E gates - International E/F gates to E gates - Domestic D gates to International E gates - Domestic D gate to USA F gates - International E gates to Domestic D gates - USA (Pier E) to Domestic D gates - USA (Pier E) to City What I do not understand at all is: Bob is arriving from USA on gate F55. Joe is connecting from a D gate to an E gate. Bob and Joe are both going to walk in the same corridor on level 3. Tim is connecting from a USA gate to a domestic gate. He meets Bob and Joe. What is to stop Bob from taking the elevator to the D gates and entering Canada illegally? Will Joe have to speak to a customs agent even though he never left Canada? |
To get from international to domestic you have to go through immigration.
Once you enter the international area, you need to clear CBSA to leave. |
First time I've had OSS coming back from Europe today. Should have just gone through regular immigration and re-cleared security. Long line at CBSA - how the .... are there still no NEXUS machines? (Which supposedly they do have at T3's OSS) - then a long wait while they packed the bus full, even though there was another empty one sitting right behind it. Prime time for arrivals for Europe, yet fewer than half the CBSA desks were manned.
I still don't see why they can't just let us in the same corridor that outbound pax doing D-I connections use. That wouldn't do anything about the CBSA mess, but at least would eliminate the sometimes ludicrously long wait for the bus. |
Originally Posted by Adam Smith
(Post 30701871)
First time I've had OSS coming back from Europe today. Should have just gone through regular immigration and re-cleared security. Long line at CBSA - how the .... are there still no NEXUS machines? (Which supposedly they do have at T3's OSS) - then a long wait while they packed the bus full, even though there was another empty one sitting right behind it. Prime time for arrivals for Europe, yet fewer than half the CBSA desks were manned.
But agreed, OSS (1) could have nexus and (2) have a corridor rather than a bus. Same at YVR BTW. |
Originally Posted by Adam Smith
(Post 30701871)
First time I've had OSS coming back from Europe today. Should have just gone through regular immigration and re-cleared security. Long line at CBSA - how the .... are there still no NEXUS machines? (Which supposedly they do have at T3's OSS) - then a long wait while they packed the bus full, even though there was another empty one sitting right behind it. Prime time for arrivals for Europe, yet fewer than half the CBSA desks were manned.
I still don't see why they can't just let us in the same corridor that outbound pax doing D-I connections use. That wouldn't do anything about the CBSA mess, but at least would eliminate the sometimes ludicrously long wait for the bus. Coming back from a non-OSS destination last week I was forced through the main customs call in YYZ for the first time in a while. Connection was very tight due to late inbound (gate agent met me deplaning and said if I ran she'd call ahead, so I went for it) and between Nexus and re-clearing security I was less than 20 mins from gate to gate and made my flight to YOW. My gut feeling based on a lot of connections in YYZ is this: the ITD OSS method can be considerably faster, but it is not consistently faster. I am guessing that dual-purposing the D to F/E corridor would require more renovation as they'd need to have some sort of controlled way of funnelling people back that way from E and F gates through CSBA. The F/E end of that corridor is already a gong show as it is, requiring half a dozen YYZ employees directing traffic and scanning boarding passes. The sad part is that YUL is better because OSS just dumps you out at the domestic gates. But then I have to deal with a less desirable connection schedule to YOW and the prevalence of Q400s with small bins on YUL-YOW connectors that won't take my 22" rollboard. |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30702890)
I am guessing that dual-purposing the D to F/E corridor would require more renovation as they'd need to have some sort of controlled way of funnelling people back that way from E and F gates through CSBA. The F/E end of that corridor is already a gong show as it is, requiring half a dozen YYZ employees directing traffic and scanning boarding passes.
Anyway, I don't think they will get rid of the buses until they can ditch the hermaphrodite gates, which implies the massive construction of Concourse & Pier H. The master plan has H at "Short-to-Medium-Term" |
Originally Posted by RatherBeInYOW
(Post 30702890)
My gut feeling based on a lot of connections in YYZ is this: the ITD OSS method can be considerably faster, but it is not consistently faster.
Last year, I had very long waits for the bus (longer than it would haven taken me to walk through security and to my gate) 4 out of 7 times. The one time I was really pressed for time, the concierge walked me through as well. I like the idea of the OSS scheme, I just don't think it's predictable enough for tight(er) connections at YYZ. YUL - no issue at all for me but then there's no bus. |
Originally Posted by vernonc
(Post 30333599)
I would respectfully disagree.
C gates security at YVR regularly sends non-Nexus pax to the Nexus lines as they try to have the same number of people in all lines. Most of my flights out of YVR to YYZ are late evening or red eye. ... I have used both YYZ and YVR a few times this year. The delay at security for connecting pax at YVR is very much due to the security and not due to passengers. As I said there was somewhere between 10-15 people ahead of me and it still took close to one hour. The reason was that they had limited staff, only one scanner/line was open, they did the liquid check on all liquids incl sealed duty free, they did the swab test on all electronics (NBs, tablets) and swabbed a lot of pax incl me.
Originally Posted by CZAMFlyer
(Post 30335142)
Most of my C-pier YVR flights take place in the morning or midday at the latest, so perhaps our times of day differ. In my experience, the lines don't blend, but the NEXUS line is often not the fastest. I can't speak to YYZ, as I avoid that airport like the plague - connecting there perhaps once per year on average. But YVR I do frequent, and next time I'm there, I'll pay particular attention to the mechanics of the screening process at different times of the day.
Edit: Once entering at the same time with a coleague without status, we went to our respective lines. His line looked modest (could have doubled the # of pax before reaching the doors, and I think 2 or 3 scanners open for him. My wait in Nexus was slightly above average, with 1 line open. I beat him through by maybe ~7min. That doesn’t mean sending FOTSG pax to Priority scanners doesn’t happen though, especially late evening when crowds die down. 99 times out of a 100, I have no issue with the Nexus line, with maybe 5 pax in front of me, and even when things are slow (extra level searches etc), the pax tend to be on it for streamlining everything. BUT, the 1/100 time in the YVR C-security Nexus I missed my flight because of it. I got caught behind a wonderful family with young kids and a bunch of their seemingly FOTSG relatives. I wasn’t stressed, as I figured I had tons of time - I had actually gone to the Priority desk just prior to try checking a bag <10 min after cutoff, as I had some liquid items in my bag. I donated it to the staff, who also weren’t concerned about time and even switched seats for me. (Yes, had I gone to security 5min sooner, I probably would have been ahead of the slow pokes.) I didn’t doodle, but didn’t rush either... just to arrive with the gate podium unmanned. I went to the nearby CS desk, and said “that’s my flight, can you radio them?” They turned around as we watched the door close. I don’t recall timing, but it couldn’t have been 10min after board time for a flight that typically boards 5min to departure. They happily accommodated me on the next flight a few hours later, so I killed some time. This time, I kept an eagle eye on the time, and made d.well sure that I was there for boarding time - the lounge agent said there was no reason to rush. Again, no GA at the podium, and no one milling about waiting to board. Back to the service desk, more frantic than last time - “I can see they’re still boarding my flight, can you help?” They did, but eesh! I didn’t bother moaning to AC about it, as I figured there were a few things I could have done different at the beginning, to make my original flight. I was mostly relieved to make it to my destination after nearly missing it for a second time. (Feel free to chime in if I should have filed a complaint - maybe I would have gained one of the fabled discount codes that gives a hair of savings over seat sales!) Never before or since have I seen such “ahead of schedule” performance on the lower-C gates. |
Originally Posted by eracerblue
(Post 30704511)
YVR is my most frequented hub by far, so I am very familiar with C-security. It reconfigures a number of times throughout the day, but I am unclear how well matched to the loads. A number or times I have seen FOTSG line snaking outside security and going down the hall (and the inside line is sizeable). While there is typically a person situated at the last corner before Nexus scanners, I have never seen them let anyone through to the Nexus line from basic line without appropriate status (which I only saw once when they let me). I believe the main reason for that person is to merge up Nexus and Priority lines, which I haven’t seen back up in a long time. Edit: Once entering at the same time with a coleague without status, we went to our respective lines. His line looked modest (could have doubled the # of pax before reaching the doors, and I think 2 or 3 scanners open for him. My wait in Nexus was slightly above average, with 1 line open. I beat him through by maybe ~7min. That doesn’t mean sending FOTSG pax to Priority scanners doesn’t happen though, especially late evening when crowds die down. 99 times out of a 100, I have no issue with the Nexus line, with maybe 5 pax in front of me, and even when things are slow (extra level searches etc), the pax tend to be on it for streamlining everything. BUT, the 1/100 time in the YVR C-security Nexus I missed my flight because of it. I got caught behind a wonderful family with young kids and a bunch of their seemingly FOTSG relatives. I wasn’t stressed, as I figured I had tons of time - I had actually gone to the Priority desk just prior to try checking a bag <10 min after cutoff, as I had some liquid items in my bag. I donated it to the staff, who also weren’t concerned about time and even switched seats for me. (Yes, had I gone to security 5min sooner, I probably would have been ahead of the slow pokes.) I didn’t doodle, but didn’t rush either... just to arrive with the gate podium unmanned. I went to the nearby CS desk, and said “that’s my flight, can you radio them?” They turned around as we watched the door close. I don’t recall timing, but it couldn’t have been 10min after board time for a flight that typically boards 5min to departure. They happily accommodated me on the next flight a few hours later, so I killed some time. This time, I kept an eagle eye on the time, and made d.well sure that I was there for boarding time - the lounge agent said there was no reason to rush. Again, no GA at the podium, and no one milling about waiting to board. Back to the service desk, more frantic than last time - “I can see they’re still boarding my flight, can you help?” They did, but eesh! I didn’t bother moaning to AC about it, as I figured there were a few things I could have done different at the beginning, to make my original flight. I was mostly relieved to make it to my destination after nearly missing it for a second time. (Feel free to chime in if I should have filed a complaint - maybe I would have gained one of the fabled discount codes that gives a hair of savings over seat sales!) Never before or since have I seen such “ahead of schedule” performance on the lower-C gates. Otherwise, you had nothing to complain about. |
Any issues with doing OSS at YYZ if one is over the duty-free allowance for alcohol, or dollar limit for spending? Do they process payment there, or do you get sent downstairs to regular cashier and lose OSS?
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