Air Canada pulling out YYZ-JFK
Feb 14, 2016, 10:08 am
#31
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I don't deny the fact that each carrier should do what's best for itself. At the end of the day, it's the bottom line that matters. If you cut a feeder flight to your alliance partners, you won't necessary force those fliers onto your metal if the goal of the flyers is to connect to other metals, especially if AC flies the same route nonstop.
The point is cutting off your partners may not be a smart move as it won't necessarily benefit you.
LAX
The point is cutting off your partners may not be a smart move as it won't necessarily benefit you.
LAX
Feb 14, 2016, 12:28 pm
#32
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I don't deny the fact that each carrier should do what's best for itself. At the end of the day, it's the bottom line that matters. If you cut a feeder flight to your alliance partners, you won't necessary force those fliers onto your metal if the goal of the flyers is to connect to other metals, especially if AC flies the same route nonstop.
The point is cutting off your partners may not be a smart move as it won't necessarily benefit you.
LAX
The point is cutting off your partners may not be a smart move as it won't necessarily benefit you.
LAX
Feb 14, 2016, 2:40 pm
#33
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 797
The data from the first 8 months of 2015 shows YYZ-JFK at a 78.02% l/f.
June, July and August ran at 88.2% loads southbound, 87.9% northbound.
Dropping a route with an 88% load factor during the summer says a lot about Jazz's ability to operate profitably, even with it's lower cost base, with LGA type yields, even with an 88% l/f.
Then again, Alaska has dropped YVR-LAX and they ran with a 94% load factor in the summer months of 2015. System wide, they broke even at 68% generated 21.6% operating margins with an average casm of 12 cents a mile over a 1,161 asl, which is pretty close to YVR-LAX mileage.
That illustrates just how bad the yields are / were on that route, even with Alaska operating the route with virtually no yield pro ration from connecting passengers into YVR and out of LAX AND having the only premium cabin of any consequence on the route.
Filling aircraft is easy. Making money whilst doing it is the hard part.
June, July and August ran at 88.2% loads southbound, 87.9% northbound.
Dropping a route with an 88% load factor during the summer says a lot about Jazz's ability to operate profitably, even with it's lower cost base, with LGA type yields, even with an 88% l/f.
Then again, Alaska has dropped YVR-LAX and they ran with a 94% load factor in the summer months of 2015. System wide, they broke even at 68% generated 21.6% operating margins with an average casm of 12 cents a mile over a 1,161 asl, which is pretty close to YVR-LAX mileage.
That illustrates just how bad the yields are / were on that route, even with Alaska operating the route with virtually no yield pro ration from connecting passengers into YVR and out of LAX AND having the only premium cabin of any consequence on the route.
Filling aircraft is easy. Making money whilst doing it is the hard part.
Last edited by HangTen; Feb 14, 2016 at 2:47 pm
Feb 14, 2016, 2:54 pm
#34
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The data from the first 8 months of 2015 shows YYZ-JFK at a 78.02% l/f.
June, July and August ran at 88.2% loads southbound, 87.9% northbound.
Dropping a route with an 88% load factor during the summer says a lot about Jazz's ability to operate profitably, even with it's lower cost base, with LGA type yields, even with an 88% l/f.
Then again, Alaska has dropped YVR-LAX and they ran with a 94% load factor in the summer months of 2015. System wide, they broke even at 68% generated 21.6% operating margins with an average casm of 12 cents a mile over a 1,161 asl, which is pretty close to YVR-LAX mileage.
That illustrates just how bad the yields are / were on that route, even with Alaska operating the route with virtually no yield pro ration from connecting passengers into YVR and out of LAX AND having the only premium cabin of any consequence on the route.
Filling aircraft is easy. Making money whilst doing it is the hard part.
June, July and August ran at 88.2% loads southbound, 87.9% northbound.
Dropping a route with an 88% load factor during the summer says a lot about Jazz's ability to operate profitably, even with it's lower cost base, with LGA type yields, even with an 88% l/f.
Then again, Alaska has dropped YVR-LAX and they ran with a 94% load factor in the summer months of 2015. System wide, they broke even at 68% generated 21.6% operating margins with an average casm of 12 cents a mile over a 1,161 asl, which is pretty close to YVR-LAX mileage.
That illustrates just how bad the yields are / were on that route, even with Alaska operating the route with virtually no yield pro ration from connecting passengers into YVR and out of LAX AND having the only premium cabin of any consequence on the route.
Filling aircraft is easy. Making money whilst doing it is the hard part.
Just because their cheapest fare on the route might be $200 doesn't mean that they're making even $50 per person, on average.
Feb 14, 2016, 8:39 pm
#35
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Yes...
But wouldn't AC prefer to keep the traffic to itself instead of giving it away to an alliance member? I suspect JFK-YYZ largely exists to steal U.S.-Europe/Asia sixth freedom traffic.
Let's be honest, the reality is that each alliance member is still out for itself at the end of the day.
But wouldn't AC prefer to keep the traffic to itself instead of giving it away to an alliance member? I suspect JFK-YYZ largely exists to steal U.S.-Europe/Asia sixth freedom traffic.
Let's be honest, the reality is that each alliance member is still out for itself at the end of the day.
The data would be interesting - including data on the number of connecting passengers to non-alliance airlines. As others have said, there just likely wasn't the right recipe of connecting traffic and higher fares on the local YYZ-JFK market to make it viable.
Feb 15, 2016, 11:53 am
#37
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Feb 15, 2016, 12:24 pm
#38
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Originally Posted by makin'miles
Well I wouldn't say that's exactly the case. AC does have the transatlantic JV with the Lufthansa Group (including LX, OS and SN) and UA (no flights from JFK of course), so isn't feeding passengers on YYZ-JFK and on to ZRH on LX, for example not much different than sending them YYZ-YUL and onwards to ZRH on LX?
YYZ-->JFK would not make money for AC as the short hop carrier makes peanuts for that run and they would essentially be giving away traffic. And there's no point in trying to pull sixth freedom traffic into YYZ from JFK because most people (premium and non-premium travellers) would take a direct international flight ex-JFK/EWR. Anybody who would prefer to fly out of LGA and connect already do that and AC gets sixth freedom traffic that way as it is. Why erode the latter by sending that traffic to originate at JFK?
Given that JFK landing and terminal fees aren't cheap and neither are ground handling and staff costs, I would argue it doesn't really make sense for the carrier to run the JFK service.
Besides, who wants to fly out of JFK on a CRJ?
Feb 15, 2016, 12:33 pm
#39
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Feb 15, 2016, 3:28 pm
#40
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Can you also enlightenn us when WG will be filing for ccaa? Especially given all those irreplaceable YOW pax who were spooked over the Sitka virus.
Last edited by kwflyer; Feb 15, 2016 at 4:41 pm
Feb 16, 2016, 7:18 am
#41
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...map/80419482/#
Air Canada dropping New York JFK from its route map
Air Canada dropping New York JFK from its route map
Feb 16, 2016, 8:17 am
#43
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I mean, It's hard to even contemplate an industry more impacted by scarcity than Aviation these days.
Not many people wanting to work at AC I imagine.
It’s borderline impossible to find lift – aircraft manufacturers and lessors don't even return calls from desperate airlines begging for jets needed to serve all the profitable Markets that have been cancelled.
And, let’s not even get into the fuel scarcity currently crippling the World
You really seem to know your stuff
Assumed you might have learned a thing or two about the industry along the way. But, You know what they say about assumptions
Feb 16, 2016, 2:49 pm
#45
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Excellent point. Please keep sharing the knowledge.
I mean, It's hard to even contemplate an industry more impacted by scarcity than Aviation these days.
Not many people wanting to work at AC I imagine.
It’s borderline impossible to find lift – aircraft manufacturers and lessors don't even return calls from desperate airlines begging for jets needed to serve all the profitable Markets that have been cancelled.
And, let’s not even get into the fuel scarcity currently crippling the World
You really seem to know your stuff
Seems you like to follow my posts.
Assumed you might have learned a thing or two about the industry along the way. But, You know what they say about assumptions
I mean, It's hard to even contemplate an industry more impacted by scarcity than Aviation these days.
Not many people wanting to work at AC I imagine.
It’s borderline impossible to find lift – aircraft manufacturers and lessors don't even return calls from desperate airlines begging for jets needed to serve all the profitable Markets that have been cancelled.
And, let’s not even get into the fuel scarcity currently crippling the World
You really seem to know your stuff
Seems you like to follow my posts.
Assumed you might have learned a thing or two about the industry along the way. But, You know what they say about assumptions
You know what they about those who invest in airline stocks...