Air Canada Altitude 2016 program for 2017 status
Nov 29, 2015, 6:35 pm
#871
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
I mean, let's face it guys.
Load factors are not what they used to be. Which means planes are leaving full, which means that every seat given for free (and please spare me the BS that AE miles are worth money and that it's a seat that was 'paid' for, like really, please) is done at a higher and higher opportunity cost.
What was easy to give away back then is no longer easy to give away now. Forget it, it's just not happening, and any executive that says "we should give more to our FF base" needs to be fired for wasting firm capital (and in some cases, public capital through government subsidized loans) for the benefit of a few people who happen to sit on planes instead of an office.
Stop chasing meaningless status, and start thinking about your life, your cash, and what YOU can do to maximize your "wealth" instead of what you wish the airline did to help you increase it (yeah, me too I would like it if Tim Hortons gave me a loyalty card with 1 free coffee for every 3 that I buy but that's never going to happen).
Fly other airlines. Look at different product offerings. Buy what YOU think is a good cost:benefit trade off. Stop begging airlines to give us more, we sound like miserable fool begging for food scraps from an airline ($2 noodle soup in J), and like huge hypocrites once we turn around and blow $200 on a meal at a restaurant I could make at home for $20.
And also, spare me the incessant BS about "boohoo, no competition, force to fly AC" poop. There are options, we just refuse to fly them. There are ways to avoid AC, but no one wants to do it because guess what, they are more expensive (but better product), or more inconvenient (cheaper but more stops/worse schedule). And if there is a cheaper fare that you think has a better product that is just as convenient as the AC fare, than sorry but you are just an idiot for buying the AC fare (sorry for the word).
C'mon. Some FTers here who are SE's spend amounts over $200K/year on airfares, and they get the same benefits as the dude that chants how he got SE for $5K by reporting a "false" US address and taking advantage of a couple mistake fares.
There are even SEs who posted in this thread, that barely get over the 100K threshold, that still spend way more $20K.
So please, go QQ to your wife/parents/girlfriend/dog. And if you post here crying, do know that I will be feasting on your delicious tears as the candy you never deserved gets taken away from you.
Load factors are not what they used to be. Which means planes are leaving full, which means that every seat given for free (and please spare me the BS that AE miles are worth money and that it's a seat that was 'paid' for, like really, please) is done at a higher and higher opportunity cost.
What was easy to give away back then is no longer easy to give away now. Forget it, it's just not happening, and any executive that says "we should give more to our FF base" needs to be fired for wasting firm capital (and in some cases, public capital through government subsidized loans) for the benefit of a few people who happen to sit on planes instead of an office.
Stop chasing meaningless status, and start thinking about your life, your cash, and what YOU can do to maximize your "wealth" instead of what you wish the airline did to help you increase it (yeah, me too I would like it if Tim Hortons gave me a loyalty card with 1 free coffee for every 3 that I buy but that's never going to happen).
Fly other airlines. Look at different product offerings. Buy what YOU think is a good cost:benefit trade off. Stop begging airlines to give us more, we sound like miserable fool begging for food scraps from an airline ($2 noodle soup in J), and like huge hypocrites once we turn around and blow $200 on a meal at a restaurant I could make at home for $20.
And also, spare me the incessant BS about "boohoo, no competition, force to fly AC" poop. There are options, we just refuse to fly them. There are ways to avoid AC, but no one wants to do it because guess what, they are more expensive (but better product), or more inconvenient (cheaper but more stops/worse schedule). And if there is a cheaper fare that you think has a better product that is just as convenient as the AC fare, than sorry but you are just an idiot for buying the AC fare (sorry for the word).
C'mon. Some FTers here who are SE's spend amounts over $200K/year on airfares, and they get the same benefits as the dude that chants how he got SE for $5K by reporting a "false" US address and taking advantage of a couple mistake fares.
There are even SEs who posted in this thread, that barely get over the 100K threshold, that still spend way more $20K.
So please, go QQ to your wife/parents/girlfriend/dog. And if you post here crying, do know that I will be feasting on your delicious tears as the candy you never deserved gets taken away from you.
Not to mention, I don't always have permanent accommodation in EVERY SINGLE DESTINATION I visit, so making my own meal in a small hotel room with limited kitchen facilities isn't an option.
What kind of fares are you flying to spend $200k?
(even paid Z TPAC every month is nowhere near that!)
I certainly would not.
(Let's not mention I can buy a $10k F ticket anytime I want, while finding O class space is not easy...)
Last edited by tcook052; Nov 29, 2015 at 6:58 pm Reason: merge multiple posts
Nov 29, 2015, 7:52 pm
#872
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 557
I am currently on a transcon and asked the IC how full flights have been on his current shift on runs across NA. he said every flight has been very full and is surprised because this is usually shoulder season. AC execs thus don't need to understand the concept at all.
Last edited by Hello again; Nov 30, 2015 at 5:13 am
Nov 29, 2015, 7:59 pm
#873
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 557
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9780; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.666 Mobile Safari/534.8+)
And because they also aren't smart enough to understand FF program benefits and moreover don't care about things like costs or value for money.
And because they also aren't smart enough to understand FF program benefits and moreover don't care about things like costs or value for money.
Nov 29, 2015, 9:27 pm
#874
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: YYZ
Programs: ACMM SE100K; *G
Posts: 1,526
Nov 29, 2015, 10:03 pm
#875
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: HKG, KUL
Programs: MH, CX Marco Polo Silver
Posts: 179
I only started to become a SE from last year, and 2016 would be the last. It was nice while it lasted.
I have been reading the posts since the day one I received the email from Air Canada.
I am sure I will not give my business to AC beyond 2016. I have spent about 13k - 17k a year for flying around world in past three years, and my flight were among different star alliance carriers. Though I tried to fly AC whenever I can (50 ~60% or more, mostly PY and J occasionally), and I am cool with sitting in premium economy or economy. So I never get the SE by segments, and this new AQD is basically destroying my path of earning the status from AC.
Upon a quick shopping around, I think I will go with Alaska, and fly any partner airlines I want. The price for full milage accrual flights from some of the partner airlines to AS is almost half as I would pay to Air Canada.
I will use my SE to burn off all my remaining AE miles, and put all my paid flights to the partner airlines(CX, EK, etc) of AS. I am sure I can get much more nicer ones with cheaper J products. That's my two cents.
Last but not least, I understand AC wants to make sure all their top tier or any tier elite members are quite loyal to AC Metals. I do not complain, but I will just find a way suit my needs. It is a win win situation between myself and AC
I have been reading the posts since the day one I received the email from Air Canada.
I am sure I will not give my business to AC beyond 2016. I have spent about 13k - 17k a year for flying around world in past three years, and my flight were among different star alliance carriers. Though I tried to fly AC whenever I can (50 ~60% or more, mostly PY and J occasionally), and I am cool with sitting in premium economy or economy. So I never get the SE by segments, and this new AQD is basically destroying my path of earning the status from AC.
Upon a quick shopping around, I think I will go with Alaska, and fly any partner airlines I want. The price for full milage accrual flights from some of the partner airlines to AS is almost half as I would pay to Air Canada.
I will use my SE to burn off all my remaining AE miles, and put all my paid flights to the partner airlines(CX, EK, etc) of AS. I am sure I can get much more nicer ones with cheaper J products. That's my two cents.
Last but not least, I understand AC wants to make sure all their top tier or any tier elite members are quite loyal to AC Metals. I do not complain, but I will just find a way suit my needs. It is a win win situation between myself and AC
Last edited by allanyong; Nov 29, 2015 at 10:53 pm
Nov 29, 2015, 10:14 pm
#876
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE100K, HH G
Posts: 2,454
Nov 29, 2015, 10:50 pm
#877
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC:50K
Posts: 708
(Besides which, if you received AQD at the time of booking, you could buy a bunch of J tickets, enjoy SE100K for a year, then cancel the tickets and get your money back.)
Nov 29, 2015, 11:11 pm
#878
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
It's not really revenue until the service is rendered. Accountants get very picky about such things, and they run the company.
(Besides which, if you received AQD at the time of booking, you could buy a bunch of J tickets, enjoy SE100K for a year, then cancel the tickets and get your money back.)
(Besides which, if you received AQD at the time of booking, you could buy a bunch of J tickets, enjoy SE100K for a year, then cancel the tickets and get your money back.)
That is, purchase a ticket and don't cancel it prior to departure. Air Canada then has the money permanently.
Seems to me there will be a new game afoot, when people do Dollar runs. They may well feel that if they are being forced to spend extra money, they might as well get every possible benefit they can out each dollar spent. That might mean maximizing points, maximizing threshold gifts, maximizing alcohol consumption in the lounge and/or on board, and so on.
Nov 30, 2015, 2:59 am
#880
Join Date: May 2012
Location: YOW
Programs: UA*1K, Marriott Titanium (LTP), Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,665
http://www.spafax.com/interactive/ai...ancois-legare/
How many folks here sign into Altitude Community every day? Have you ever looked at the Alexa numbers? It's a complete fail.
How many folks here sign into Altitude Community every day? Have you ever looked at the Alexa numbers? It's a complete fail.
I love this quote from the article:
Where do you see the Altitude Community in a year from now?
I think there’s a lot of potential for brand alliances, native advertising and other forms of user-generated content. I’d love to aggregate member recommendations and turn them into real destination guides. How’s that for branded content?
I think there’s a lot of potential for brand alliances, native advertising and other forms of user-generated content. I’d love to aggregate member recommendations and turn them into real destination guides. How’s that for branded content?
Nov 30, 2015, 4:28 am
#881
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
Unfortunately you forgot how incremental analysis works
Fair enough. If you want to deal on an incremental analysis, at least do it all the way, no? It has to be incremental cost versus incremental benefits.
The difference in spend between E75 and E100 (see what I did there) is $11,000, over >15% ROI on the incremental spending.
Oh but wait, doesn't E100K get priority rewards at regular cost instead of double? So I guess we have to double that in our incremental analysis since it gives us the opportunity gain to buy "higher value" fares, so we're back at >30% ROI.
Either way, we still only went from super ridiculous to pretty ridiculous (isn't AC's net margin still at around 1%).
I just thought that doing the analysis at full cost would be much easier to follow for the average FTer than a full blown incremental analysis, but I can dance to whichever music.
Fair enough. If you want to deal on an incremental analysis, at least do it all the way, no? It has to be incremental cost versus incremental benefits.
The difference in spend between E75 and E100 (see what I did there) is $11,000, over >15% ROI on the incremental spending.
Oh but wait, doesn't E100K get priority rewards at regular cost instead of double? So I guess we have to double that in our incremental analysis since it gives us the opportunity gain to buy "higher value" fares, so we're back at >30% ROI.
Either way, we still only went from super ridiculous to pretty ridiculous (isn't AC's net margin still at around 1%).
I just thought that doing the analysis at full cost would be much easier to follow for the average FTer than a full blown incremental analysis, but I can dance to whichever music.
but in doing so, not sufficient to just use the theoretical benefits posted by AC/AE - and I would target your example of SE getting normal rate Priority Rewards as more of a theoretical than practical benefit. I'm looking for biz space for my spouse using AE miles to South/South America for mid-March -full 3 months out, and nothing available even with some flexible travel days, but can't be too flexible as otherwise won't work with my work schedule.
So, what's the point of removing YQ and supposedly offering PR IKK (with 10 PNR limit), when I can't use the +/-450k AE miles accumulated in 2015 alone when I want - and supposedly as valued customer with long-standing SE and MM status (and I routinely spend way over AQD minimum).
Accordingly, your PR example valuation really needs to revised downwards quite substantially as the potential benefit from IKK isn't there, and while I used possibly less busy route YVR-YYZ-BOG where I easily could find a P fare, I dispute your assertion that the benefits calculation should use much higher value fares - simply because those seats simply aren't available for PR in the first place on highly desirable routes at highly desirable times.
As such, in no possible manner can space left over even for PR awards can have same value as space removed from PR access because the airline believes it can make way more money by retaining the seat for the sales till.
And to summarize, I think we both agree that the ability to make incremental comparisons would be fraught with problems, the least of which we have no idea of what the cost side of delivering the status programs might look like.
Nov 30, 2015, 4:30 am
#882
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AC SE; SPG Platnium; HH G
Posts: 551
Assuming 100 segments and 50 AQM their cpm is 40?
I have to wonder why some are so quick to condemn the segment tango folks as they receive so little in terms of mile rewards.
Nov 30, 2015, 5:25 am
#883
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC SE100K, HH G
Posts: 2,454
Not condemn, but the reality is that flying YYT-YYZ in five segments (rather than direct) for $250 is nothing but gaming the system: it's certainly not going to make you one of AC's top customers, even if it merits SE under the 2015 rules.
Nov 30, 2015, 7:53 am
#884
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AC SE; SPG Platnium; HH G
Posts: 551
how many are doing that compared to the ones who travel every other week and have to connect - 4 segments x 25 weeks and spending 15k and earning half or less the miles.
Nov 30, 2015, 8:09 am
#885
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,237
and for that under 2016 rules they drop to E75K, per AC while being valued customer, no longer SE worthy