RangerNS

No, neither alternate is good. Given the options of a UM vs an adult, the adult should be able to, er, adult.

Stranger

Their choice was to take a chance by choosing a fare that does not includes free seat assignment and not paying for a seat assignment whereby making them first priority for getting bumped though.

Not quite the same thing, but still, presumably they should have known the risk.

YEG USER

This...

Why are we talking about UM's on a thread that is specifically about parents who are travelling with their children? AFAIK there are other threads on the subject with details that would render the discussion on the hypothetical situation obsolete, but I don't want to derail this thread even further...

GrayAnderson

I have to view that latter sentence as somewhat questionable in various situations. In some cases, flying is the only option; in others, it may be the only feasible/practical option. And though it is rarely the case that the incumbent is someone like Spirit or Allegiant, there are cities where you only have one or two "incumbent" carriers with similar policies and no alternatives. So while folks aren't being marched down the jetway at gunpoint and then having their wallets stolen when they board the plane, I think the degree of consumer choice (to say nothing of educated consumer choice) is problematic.

An easy example, btw, is airlines saying that "Yes, we'll seat a parent with a child in X proximity"...but not setting their systems up to actually automatically do that (I can't speak to whether they're doing a decent job of informing folks after ticket purchase about what they need to do to see to the assignment).

YEG USER I think the discussion is between seating families together and creating something that amounts to a UM situation due to seating arrangements.

RangerNS

The documented news cases we have seen were ultimately situations where they did not bother telling AC part of the group were children, or actively worked against them even being a group at all (which would have advantages outside of seat assignment), booking minors on adult tickets and not even liking them to the existing group.

canadiancow

For domestic tickets, 16 year-olds are adults. They don't quite have the same issue with sitting apart, though they would have issues being treated as adults in IRROPS (hotel check-in, etc.).

But I agree with the rest. I can book someone as a youth, child, or infant. And I suspect it costs the same (or less?).

If you tell the airline someone's a youth/child, you get the benefits of that. I don't know if "youth" gets you free seating benefits, but we're still talking about 12-15 there, which is not nearly the same as a 5 year old.

The point is, this is not an issue on AC any more.

GrayAnderson

That's fair, and in defense of a bunch of airlines it isn't like you tend to see serious follow-up (or many cases of an "investigative report" dropping a brick on the initial complainer...Elliott will sort-of do this but that's about it). The most you get is muddled equation, not "The customer really was trying to be too clever by half".

global happy traveller

With GHT Jrs now, all I can say is AC and UA makes a lot of effort to have us seated together (or in close proximity) as a family.

As others have mentioned we also get free seat selection with Basic Economy fares too. Even if that did not pan out gate agents and onboard staff usually do magic.

so I don’t know where all these bad experiences came from or are they just a few bad apples in the lot

seriously when your a teen do you still wanna sit with your parents? I recall me purposely asking to be seated away from them as far as possible.

fin 645

I continue to see the opinion that anyone seated separately from kids "brought it on themselves" by not paying for seats, informing AC that one or more pax were kids etc etc. Please remember that not all travel is discretionary - there are circumstances when families are flying for reasons such as relocation and are at the mercy of corporate travel policies, TAs etc. I posted on another thread about how Canadian military families are booked - every person (including infants) on a separate PNR and no, paying for seat selection is not covered. That post was scorned by some of the regular FTers, and dismissed as the TA not following the rules. Pardon me, but if you haven't been subject to how it's done, please refrain from pontificating. But just pointing out that the situation can arise for a number of reasons which are NOT the passenger's fault.

Stranger

True that it mght not be the passenger fault. But surely neither the airline. If it is the passenger's employer fault, such as apparently the case of the military, please blame the issue there and don't expect the airline to fix an issue that it's not aware of because someone else messed up.

In a sense in the current context it is still the passenger's fault in the sense that the passengers should have taken the issue with the party that booked them and made them know there was an issue. Actually booking an infant on a separate PNR is in violation of the airline's rules. Just wrong, period. Absolutely the case that the TA is not following the rules.

fin 645

Firstly, I am not blaming the airlines in general nor AC in particular. I am merely trying to point out that passengers may not have any control over the situation. I can only wish that your bookings had to be made in similar circumstances and maybe then finding out how useful (read useless) taking "issue with the party that booked them and made them know there was an issue." will be. I'll admit that I have no idea if the TA is breaking rules except that it's been done this way for ages and AC has never objected nor taken the TA (AMEX) to task.

And what happened when we brought the issue to the attention of an MP? A litany of comments from the MP about the idiocy of government booking procedures. Actually if there is any bright side to this, it's that it usually takes so long to get an approval to book that it's often last minute and only higher end fares are left, and they may in fact provide free seat assignments. What that all costs the taxpayers never seems to matter.

Fiordland

I would claim it is the airline problem. Most times when I book a flight I need to enter the age of the passenger. The airline knows the age of the passengers on the same PNR; has full access to adjust any seating on the aircraft and has been told by government sit kids next to their parents. Some computer code in the airline reservation system should be able to make all this happen. (The assumption that an airline can effectively implement software changes may be a stretch, but it can at least try).

They could even have humans do it. I will give you an example. In the early days of WestJet you could only pick your seat at online check-in time. Back then I was fairly regularly flying from London Ontario to Saskatoon. That was a milk run London-Winnipeg-Saskatoon-Calgary-Vancouver-Prince George. At check-in in London I once commented how this flight was weird in that my seat was always pre-assinged. She explained yes, that is their doing. The day before the checkin agents will go in each day and pre-assign seats for anyone doing more than one hop, otherwise they are only left with middle seats.

canadiancow

If you give AC the passenger ages (international) or age groups (domestic - youth/child/whatever), you get free seat selection.

So what you're saying SHOULD happen DOES happen, if the passengers tell the airline they have children.

Fiordland

Then this all should be a non-issue. System should just pre-assign seats.

Are people deliberately picking seats away from their children? I don't get why this is an issue.

canadiancow

Because they go to AC.com (or a TA, or ... however people book tickets?) and book 4 adults in Basic/Standard instead of 2 adults and 2 children.