AC Staff in J when overbooked

Old Jun 7, 15, 7:53 pm
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AC Staff in J when overbooked

So, due to the ground delay/stop in YYZ on Friday and I was flying in from YOW. Due to the weather it was obvious we had a lot of people switching flights to try to get home faster.

So we had a full flight however I'm not totally sure it was oversold or not and just full by virtue of people switching flights day-of. I was desperate to get to my seat, so I was at the front of zone 1 - first non-assist pax on. I found two uniformed AC pilots sitting in J as I came onto the flight.

Now I know deadheads need seats, and you don't or can't bump them for obvious reasons... but in J on a full plane? I can't exactly decide how I feel about being left in Y when the plane was obviously full and delayed by two hours in favor of two uniformed pilots. Is this in policy? Reasonable?
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Old Jun 7, 15, 7:56 pm
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IIRC, its in the collective agreement for Captains deadheading to a flying assignment.

"left in Y?" Did you have a confirmed J class reservation? If not, please explain your expectation of flying in the J cabin.
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Old Jun 7, 15, 7:59 pm
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Originally Posted by pitz View Post
IIRC, its in the collective agreement for Captains deadheading to a flying assignment.

"left in Y?" Did you have a confirmed J class reservation? If not, please explain your expectation of flying in the J cabin.
Generally in the case of a full/overbooked flight I expect to be near the top of the op-up priority. That's all. I certainly didn't feel entitled to it in this case. I'd have been grumpy had I tried to eup and failed - but I didn't.

But you answered my question. I wasn't aware pilots were given J seats by default.
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Old Jun 7, 15, 8:00 pm
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Deadheading, they were more entitled to it than you were.

I also don't see what's wrong with pilots in J even if it wasn't contract - I want my pilots as well rested and comfortable as possible, and you should too!
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Old Jun 7, 15, 8:05 pm
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To be clear, I'm assuming they were deadheading since they were in uniform and there was a pair of them. I didn't ask.
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Old Jun 7, 15, 8:05 pm
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Originally Posted by epiphani View Post
Generally in the case of a full/overbooked flight I expect to be near the top of the op-up priority. That's all. I certainly didn't feel entitled to it in this case. I'd have been grumpy had I tried to eup and failed - but I didn't.

But you answered my question. I wasn't aware pilots were given J seats by default.
Deadheading Flight Ops Crews are entitled to J so that they arrive rested to fly. For example, out of YYC, most of the FRA/LHR/NRT departures have the crews deadhead in from YVR. I know that if I am on a nine hour flight I would want my crew to be ready for the flight. A 1.5hr flight in the middle Y seat isn't fun for anyone but obviously the company and the union agree that their Flight Ops Crews should fly in J to get to/from work assignments. Try to think of it as any other company who makes a conscious decision to buy full fare J tickets for their employees to fly; this is AC's way.
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Old Jun 7, 15, 8:09 pm
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Originally Posted by YYC009 View Post
Deadheading Flight Ops Crews are entitled to J so that they arrive rested to fly. For example, out of YYC, most of the FRA/LHR/NRT departures have the crews deadhead in from YVR. I know that if I am on a nine hour flight I would want my crew to be ready for the flight. A 1.5hr flight in the middle Y seat isn't fun for anyone but obviously the company and the union agree that their Flight Ops Crews should fly in J to get to/from work assignments. Try to think of it as any other company who makes a conscious decision to buy full fare J tickets for their employees to fly; this is AC's way.
On top of this, I thought only once all eups have been processed that then crews get to sit up front, no? They are upgraded last last I heard.
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Old Jun 7, 15, 8:33 pm
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Originally Posted by superangrypenguin View Post
On top of this, I thought only once all eups have been processed that then crews get to sit up front, no? They are upgraded last last I heard.
There are AC employee passes that allow for space-available J travel. Presumably they have a priority that is above non-confirmed upgraders, but of course, will not permit them to sit in J if the aircraft is truly overbooked in its entirety, or if J is oversold with confirmed passengers.

So in an op-upgrade scenario, the AC employee J pass travellers would still have priority over op-upgraders, unless both J and Y seating has been exhausted.

The "upgrade" list, as explained in various other threads, is different than that of the "standby" list (J standby implies that a passenger has an entitlement to fly in the J cabin by paying a fare/J AP reward or being on a J pass), and "upgrade" priorities are different than standby priorities. The standby list is cleared before the upgrade priorities come into effect.
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Old Jun 7, 15, 8:42 pm
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Originally Posted by pitz View Post

The "upgrade" list, as explained in various other threads, is different than that of the "standby" list

[snip]

The standby list is cleared before the upgrade priorities come into effect.
Ben Lipsey has already took your post head on and disproven this. Harping it over and over doesn't make it right, especially when a representative of the airline has explicitly addressed your post and said it wasn't the case. There is no separate upgrade and standby list.

I concur when it comes to the passes, however. (when it comes to upgrade priority)
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Old Jun 7, 15, 8:57 pm
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Originally Posted by superangrypenguin View Post
On top of this, I thought only once all eups have been processed that then crews get to sit up front, no? They are upgraded last last I heard.
I believe there are differences for Flight Ops Crews deadheading and other employees traveling. From what I have read, Flight Ops Crews deadheading are confirmed in J. Different story for Flight Ops personnel commuting, IFS Crews, other employees, etc. They are the ones I think you refer to in being upgraded after revenue passengers.
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Old Jun 7, 15, 9:20 pm
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There are a few inaccuracies above...

Air Canada Captains deadhead in confirmed J.

Then the upgrade list is cleared.

If there is still open J space, an Air Canada First Officer will get priority for the open J seat over any other deadheading employee.

Last edited by smoothride; Jun 7, 15 at 9:27 pm
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Old Jun 7, 15, 9:30 pm
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Originally Posted by smoothride View Post
There are a few inaccuracies above...

Air Canada Captains deadhead in confirmed J.

Then the upgrade list is cleared.

If there is still open J space, an Air Canada First Officer will get priority for the open J seat over any other deadheading employee.
Do AC captains only deadhead in confirmed J? I thought even if they are going home they get to be in confirmed J?
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Old Jun 7, 15, 9:39 pm
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Originally Posted by superangrypenguin View Post
Do AC captains only deadhead in confirmed J? I thought even if they are going home they get to be in confirmed J?
Deadheading means positioning to and/or from a flight assignment, while on duty. In other words, the clock is ticking on pilot duty day, and any rest you can take helps while deadheading.
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Old Jun 7, 15, 9:56 pm
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Originally Posted by epiphani View Post
Generally in the case of a full/overbooked flight I expect to be near the top of the op-up priority. That's all. I certainly didn't feel entitled to it in this case. I'd have been grumpy had I tried to eup and failed - but I didn't.

But you answered my question. I wasn't aware pilots were given J seats by default.
You sound entitled. If you want J, buy it.
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Old Jun 8, 15, 10:24 am
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Originally Posted by pitz View Post
The standby list is cleared before the upgrade priorities come into effect.
You have it backwards.

SE (me) on a J fare, standing by for an earlier flight, did not get the seat because a P25K was upgrading a G fare.

I see the logic where you want someone on a Y fare to have priority for that flight's J cabin than someone booked on a different flight, but it becomes less clear when you have highest status on highest fare losing out over someone with lowest status and lowest (upgradeable) fare.

As for the point about captains, they ALWAYS get J when deadheading. Period. That's not standby/upgrade/whatever. They are booked into J.

AC staff can book J, book Y and upgrade, or stand by. The same as you can (okay - a little different). Captains book J when deadheading.
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