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-   -   AC increases YYC-LHR, decreases YEG-LHR for S15 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-canada-aeroplan/1653056-ac-increases-yyc-lhr-decreases-yeg-lhr-s15.html)

pappypappy Feb 7, 2015 1:51 pm


Originally Posted by Dorian (Post 24309471)
Maybe AC is taking in to account the downturn in the oil patch?

Interesting idea - though is YYC that much less affected than YEG? I think it's more likely just the latest swing of the handbag in the childish fight between AC and EIA.

winnipegrev Feb 7, 2015 2:03 pm


Originally Posted by pappypappy (Post 24309472)
AMS is probably more efficient if your connection flies from there, but with exchange to the 4 greater-London airports you have low-cost connections to practically everywhere in Europe. The T2 point is a good one, though I wonder how many summer (read: leisure) travelers worry too much about *A when looking at their $50 Easyjet flight :)

The connections AC is concerned with aren't the people booking $50 Easyjet flights though :p I meant to SAA to JNB, AI to BOM/DEL, and other Star connections to LIS/MUC/FRA etc.

If the $50 Easyjet flyer is the type of traveller the AC YEG service is attracting, AC is in big trouble. I'd entirely expect AC to either convert the 3x LHR services to Rouge or pull the plug entirely on YEGLHR and open YEGLGW with Rouge seasonally.

TheGreatestX Feb 7, 2015 2:07 pm


Originally Posted by Altaflyer (Post 24309485)
This may also be a smelling of blood in BA's world at YYC so could be a 2 for one play. Piss of the EIA gang and try to bully out BA from YYC. Would be nice for BA to fill those 4 days with a YEG tag but seems unlikely now. Hope they don't touch my Mar 29 flight to LHR.

It stays daily until KLM starts. They're operating daily in April but not July. @:-)

pappypappy Feb 7, 2015 2:09 pm


Originally Posted by winnipegrev (Post 24309538)
The connections AC is concerned with aren't the people booking $50 Easyjet flights though :p

If that is the type of traveller the YEG service is attracting, AC is in big trouble. I'd entirely expect AC to either convert the 3x LHR services to Rouge or pull the plug entirely on YEGLHR and open YEGLGW with Rouge seasonally.

I am sure they would have Rouged every plane in the fleet given the chance - it's not lack of desire which is stopping them doing it!

I would expect practically all the pax on the planes to be 'leisure' - there are certainly plenty of families and older people on every flight (though a decent % are transiting to the sub-continent). My EJ example was just illustrative - the cost of flights from UK to the EU is incredibly low compared to Canada (jawdroppingly so to anyone used to travelling intra-EU a lot!).

winnipegrev Feb 7, 2015 2:21 pm


Originally Posted by pappypappy (Post 24309565)
I am sure they would have Rouged every plane in the fleet given the chance - it's not lack of desire which is stopping them doing it!

I don't know why people keep repeating AC wants to Rouge everything... they aren't even expanding Rouge as fast as they could. Lots of 763s sitting in the desert.

Evidently YEG-LHR is right on the edge of being able to support mainline service. Obviously many low yielding passengers vs. YYC and the slots in LHR are probably too valuable for deploying Rouge. SAS just sold a slot pair for $60 million USD.

AC may need lower CASM to compete with KL on European connections. That'll mean deploy an expensive 788 asset, or more likely they will reduce service until it is sustainable and use the 788s on even more profitable routes like they think YYZ-DEL/DXB will be.

DavidYYC Feb 7, 2015 2:22 pm

I wonder when we will ever see the AC 787 start a route from YYC?
Also I am puzzled why they just did not change it to a 77W?

It will provide competition to BA, as I have switched to BA hope that brings some of the prices down....?

winnipegrev Feb 7, 2015 2:27 pm


Originally Posted by DavidYYC (Post 24309622)
I wonder when we will ever see the AC 787 start a route from YYC?
Also I am puzzled why they just did not change it to a 77W?

It will provide competition to BA, as I have switched to BA hope that brings some of the prices down....?

I thought AC stated they wanted to remove all 763s from TPAC ASAP? Maybe that means it'll happen in 2015... not a 'new' route, but replacing 763 NRT.

They don't have enough 77Ws. This summer there's a pretty staggering 1x763 and 3x77W YYZ-LHR... last year it was 763/333/77L/77W or 763/77L/77W/77W during very peak summer.

They get 2 more 77Ws in 2016, with the new 400-ish seat count config they will likely cut back to 1 flight ex-YYC and find a better use for the ex-YEG LHR slot. I bet YVR could absorb YEG's remaining 3x LHR flight slots easily...

Altaflyer Feb 7, 2015 5:47 pm

Any extra Yvr would just be leisure traffic.

rehoult Feb 7, 2015 6:00 pm


Originally Posted by pappypappy (Post 24309565)
I am sure they would have Rouged every plane in the fleet given the chance - it's not lack of desire which is stopping them doing it!

?! They could Rouge a bunch more 767s tomorrow. They don't because there are many routes that do better on mainline thanks to the J fares they are able to pull. The lower costs and increase in seats that Rouge brings can't make up for a J cabin that regularly goes out full.

AA_EXP09 Feb 7, 2015 10:37 pm


Originally Posted by winnipegrev (Post 24309538)
The connections AC is concerned with aren't the people booking $50 Easyjet flights though :p I meant to SAA to JNB, AI to BOM/DEL, and other Star connections to LIS/MUC/FRA etc.

If the $50 Easyjet flyer is the type of traveller the AC YEG service is attracting, AC is in big trouble. I'd entirely expect AC to either convert the 3x LHR services to Rouge or pull the plug entirely on YEGLHR and open YEGLGW with Rouge seasonally.

for LIS/MUC/FRA what is the difference between a connection in LON vs one in YYZ?
I know that for airport taxes, I would rather pay CAD 4.52 than GBP 39.75 for a similar connection (and on the outbound, not have to reclear security.)

winnipegrev Feb 7, 2015 11:34 pm


Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 (Post 24311297)
for LIS/MUC/FRA what is the difference between a connection in LON vs one in YYZ?
I know that for airport taxes, I would rather pay CAD 4.52 than GBP 39.75 for a similar connection (and on the outbound, not have to reclear security.)

I'd personally rather make the connection on the North American side, but we have a special forum member who claims he will never connect in YYZ (and would rather in KEF... lol). Maybe there's enough people like him secretly flying AC to keep YEG-LHR service going? ;)

TheGreatestX Feb 8, 2015 12:22 am


Originally Posted by AA_EXP09 (Post 24311297)
for LIS/MUC/FRA what is the difference between a connection in LON vs one in YYZ?
I know that for airport taxes, I would rather pay CAD 4.52 than GBP 39.75 for a similar connection (and on the outbound, not have to reclear security.)

Well Toronto is a significant detour.

Edmonton to Frankfurt would be 3961 nm non-stop.
Via Amsterdam is 3965 nm
Via Keflavik is 3966 nm
Via London 4042 nm
Via Toronto 4890 nm

KenHamer Feb 8, 2015 12:36 am

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9780; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.8+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0.0.666 Mobile Safari/534.8+)


Originally Posted by winnipegrev

Originally Posted by tcook052 (Post 24309227)
Less NS service is rarely a good thing however for those connecting within EU the KL option is there and AMS is more efficient hub than LHR.

Is AMS really more efficient now that Star operates from LHR T2?

Is a root beer float better than a root canal?

yulred Feb 8, 2015 8:52 am


Originally Posted by winnipegrev (Post 24309617)
I don't know why people keep repeating AC wants to Rouge everything... they aren't even expanding Rouge as fast as they could. Lots of 763s sitting in the desert.

Probably because it makes sense. Apparently there's an endless market for Rouge. AC hasn't struggled to fill that Rouge capacity; in fact it's manged to do it without diluting yields much. There are two possibilities:

1. Everyone loves Rouge so much, they're willing to pay top dollar; or,
2. The market is undersupplied, so they'll take whatever is available at whatever cost required.

Either which way, makes sense to expand Rouge. The only thing limiting AC is a union contract. Not that it's stopping them from Rouging the elements they can, namely the Y product:

1. The only difference between a Rouge 763 and a 787 in Y will soon be IFE (in the 787 favor) and seat width (in the 767 favor). Can't imagine Rouge catering is currently inferior to AC Y mainline catering. That would really take some effort.

2. If the 2 by 2 J product ever comes to narrow bodies, well, the only difference between the Rouge and mainline product will be what - 1-2" more legroom in the Y cabin and IFE? I m willing to bet that legroom difference will disappear too when the Y product is refreshed for the 737s.

3. The uniforms.

The only real difference between the two is soon going to be the Premium aspect
(J/Y+). Will that make a difference for YEG? The competition isn't coming in with high end premium products.

PointWeasel Feb 8, 2015 9:03 am

There are still many travellers that are fine with the extra miles of travel to ensure a connection in YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL, YOW, YHZ so they arrive in Europe at their destination rather than connecting intra-Europe.

Now, I don't understand that myself, (:p), that has to affect YEG-LHR a bit as well.

Plus, for those YEG travellers that want destinations like CDG as a rough example, there is no Star Alliance single connection via LHR, which makes YUL, YYZ, ORD the better alternatives.


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