Air Canada's aging 767-300's
Jan 29, 2015, 12:30 pm
#46
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I'd say the answer is yes, but that it doesn't mean much as fleet purchases tend to run in cycles and western carriers tend to aim for planes to last 25-30 years.
In the 90s, AC had a super low fleet age as they purchased a complete A320 series fleet (replacing 727 and many DC-9), and brought on new B744, B767 and A343 to replace a large part of their widebody fleet. After that, the only really notable changes were the introduction of the 777 in the early 2000s (and subsequent retirement of more of the older widebodies). Given that, the average age just kept going up every year. Now AC is once again entering a major fleet renewal cycle, so you'll see the age plummet as the MAX and 787 enter the fleet and the A320 and 767 leave it. Then the cycle repeats again.
You can see the same south of the border as well. Look at AA's fleet 5 years ago: massive numbers of MDs, 757s and older 767s. Since then they've placed an order to replace their entire narrowbody fleet with NEO and MAX, and are replacing the vast majority of the 767 fleet with 787. By 2020 their average age will probably have dropped by ~10 years. Delta is a similar story. United is a bit more constant on fleet age as they seem to buy random aircraft whenever the mood strikes.
In the 90s, AC had a super low fleet age as they purchased a complete A320 series fleet (replacing 727 and many DC-9), and brought on new B744, B767 and A343 to replace a large part of their widebody fleet. After that, the only really notable changes were the introduction of the 777 in the early 2000s (and subsequent retirement of more of the older widebodies). Given that, the average age just kept going up every year. Now AC is once again entering a major fleet renewal cycle, so you'll see the age plummet as the MAX and 787 enter the fleet and the A320 and 767 leave it. Then the cycle repeats again.
You can see the same south of the border as well. Look at AA's fleet 5 years ago: massive numbers of MDs, 757s and older 767s. Since then they've placed an order to replace their entire narrowbody fleet with NEO and MAX, and are replacing the vast majority of the 767 fleet with 787. By 2020 their average age will probably have dropped by ~10 years. Delta is a similar story. United is a bit more constant on fleet age as they seem to buy random aircraft whenever the mood strikes.
Jan 29, 2015, 3:14 pm
#47
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Jan 29, 2015, 10:12 pm
#49
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I wouldn't be so sure. The 777s available in the 90s weren't what AC needed like the 77W/L were years later, and the A340 order led to future A333s which gave AC an aircraft which is still more efficient than 77Es TATL.
Even if AC ordered 77Es they would have likely been replaced by 77Ws by now anyway, and if not AC would be in a worse position than they are now.
Yes but the last 787 doesn't arrive until 2019. Internal rumour an AC employee told me (ie don't bet on it happening) is some 763s may even get the latest J seat... but I think just PY is more likely.
Even if AC ordered 77Es they would have likely been replaced by 77Ws by now anyway, and if not AC would be in a worse position than they are now.
Yes but the last 787 doesn't arrive until 2019. Internal rumour an AC employee told me (ie don't bet on it happening) is some 763s may even get the latest J seat... but I think just PY is more likely.
Jan 30, 2015, 4:35 am
#50
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Question(s): TOiLETTE and Hangul
1. Why do many of the 763 cabins spell/display the french "toilet" as "TOiLETTE" with a lower case "i" and the rest of the letters are upper case?
2. I have witnessed Hangul embossed on the inside of lavatory doors on 763s that I've been on (or, maybe I've been a repeat customer on the same FIN that has this)... are most AC 763s originally from other airlines?
2. I have witnessed Hangul embossed on the inside of lavatory doors on 763s that I've been on (or, maybe I've been a repeat customer on the same FIN that has this)... are most AC 763s originally from other airlines?
Jan 30, 2015, 6:08 am
#51
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1. Why do many of the 763 cabins spell/display the french "toilet" as "TOiLETTE" with a lower case "i" and the rest of the letters are upper case?
2. I have witnessed Hangul embossed on the inside of lavatory doors on 763s that I've been on (or, maybe I've been a repeat customer on the same FIN that has this)... are most AC 763s originally from other airlines?
2. I have witnessed Hangul embossed on the inside of lavatory doors on 763s that I've been on (or, maybe I've been a repeat customer on the same FIN that has this)... are most AC 763s originally from other airlines?
Jan 30, 2015, 8:05 am
#53
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All of which were operated or are still operated at a decent frequency. Then a lot of Europe. They still to this day do not get much domestic play. And the 67s that did most of the inter North America flights were retired in 2008 (the 767200s) So the 300s havn't been doing the flight very long.
Their hours on the other hand would be very high. They don't stop. Air Canada would need 40 of them to operate them at the frequency many other carriers do.
Jan 30, 2015, 8:57 am
#54
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As to hours, in context, these planes are not that old actually.
Real issues are twofold: (1) they look old; and (2) compared with newer models they are not all that efficient.
Jan 30, 2015, 10:01 am
#55
Formerly known as tireman77
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On top of the, the 767 replacement is ongoing. The replacement for the A320 won't start for a few years.
Jan 30, 2015, 11:03 am
#56
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I have 9 segments in 2015 to date on these old ,dirty ,dark and beat up aircraft. They are really showing their age and am hopeful that AC Express finds a suitable replacement soon.
Jan 30, 2015, 11:33 am
#57
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They won't be in the Jazz fleet, current fleet plan is to have Dash8-100s start leaving the fleet shortly and be phased out over the coming years. CPA calls for the smallest plane in the Jazz fleet to be the Dash 8-300s
Jan 30, 2015, 12:32 pm
#59
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They better not have exceeded the cycles and hours listed in Figure 6 here: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...les/2012_q4/2/
Jan 30, 2015, 12:59 pm
#60
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What's the relation between cycles and long haul/short haul? 
Every cycle places stress on the airframe. The length of the flight does not have much play here, other than long haul flights go through fewer cycles in a given time period compared to short haul flights. So, the number of cycles on an airframe still needs to be considered.
Every cycle places stress on the airframe. The length of the flight does not have much play here, other than long haul flights go through fewer cycles in a given time period compared to short haul flights. So, the number of cycles on an airframe still needs to be considered.