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Does the IKK benefit not apply to Rouge flights?

Does the IKK benefit not apply to Rouge flights?

Old Jan 20, 2015, 11:21 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Snow Goose
Yes, I called Aeroplan thinking that it was possibly a problem with the website. They were not able to access IKK either, but offered market fares as an alternative (which I declined).

SG
Call back and ask how many seats are booked on the flight.

I'm willing to bet it's full.
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Old Jan 20, 2015, 11:42 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
Call back and ask how many seats are booked on the flight.

I'm willing to bet it's full.
Surely if there is a Market Fare Reward "economy class seat" available then there is an "unsold economy class seat" available. Seems to be a discrepancy here between what is advertised and reality.
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Old Jan 20, 2015, 11:57 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Geoflying
Surely if there is a Market Fare Reward "economy class seat" available then there is an "unsold economy class seat" available. Seems to be a discrepancy here between what is advertised and reality.
No, that's absolutely not true. Airlines oversell flights. Market fare rewards are available if they're still selling tickets. It doesn't mean it isn't sold out.
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Old Jan 20, 2015, 12:00 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
No, that's absolutely not true. Airlines oversell flights. Market fare rewards are available if they're still selling tickets. It doesn't mean it isn't sold out.
OK - so it really is a question of whether it is in an oversell situation - and IIRC that can only be determined by the phonecall you suggested - ok - got it - thanks.
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Old Jan 20, 2015, 12:11 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by Geoflying
Surely if there is a Market Fare Reward "economy class seat" available then there is an "unsold economy class seat" available. Seems to be a discrepancy here between what is advertised and reality.
IKK, even in its glory days, was never available for flights that are oversold (even if they are still allowing even more reservations to make it even more oversold).

Obviously I don't know why the OP cannot get IKK awards for those particular flights, but if the flights are currently oversold then this would not be a new issue with the IKK benefit.

I wouldn't call the matter a "discrepancy" per se. I'd call it a lack of clarity. The language used to describe the Altitude benefits is unclear and differs from the technical language used by to describe airline tickets and reservations. They use the language "access to any...unsold seat".

But airlines do not sell seats - they sell tickets. A ticket is not a seat on any particular flight. That is a reservation, which is not the same thing as a ticket. You can have a reservation without a ticket (for sure) and a ticket without a reservation (I think). So it doesn't make sense to talk about access to unsold seats.

How one acts on all this information is a matter of choice. Some people choose to learn all these technical details and at most roll their eyes at the marketing language used to vaguely describe the benefits. Other people will get extremely angry about the whole thing and decide this (very old) policy is something in fact a new policy that the airline recently invented (probably by airline employees they happen to know by name) to personally "screw" them over.
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Old Jan 20, 2015, 12:35 pm
  #21  
 
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Zorn... can't disagree with anything you said. You are exactly correct that oversold flights never had IKK availability. Which is why the real question is: is IKK available on rouge in the same way as it is available on mainline AC? Or is there an unadvertised difference?
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Old Jan 20, 2015, 12:40 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by ridefar
Zorn... can't disagree with anything you said. You are exactly correct that oversold flights never had IKK availability. Which is why the real question is: is IKK available on rouge in the same way as it is available on mainline AC? Or is there an unadvertised difference?
Based on personal experience, I believe it's the same.

And based on the privileges document, it's "Air Canada, Air Canada Express, or Air Canada rouge".
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Old Jan 20, 2015, 7:39 pm
  #23  
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I have never seen a situation where a flight is oversold in economy but AC is still willing to sell 5+ Flex fares for $389 each. Usually only Latitude or higher fares are available when the flight approaches an oversell situation, and certainly after reaching capacity. As an additional data point, 3 business class IKK seats were available on the first flight that I noticed this pattern on, even though no economy IKK was available. It has been long-standing AC policy to NOT allow IKK of business class seats if the economy cabin is oversold.

I have already moved on - changed my travel plans rather than pursue the matter further. Having said that, until or unless Ben or another AC representative clarifies the situation I'm starting to believe that AC has begun to restrict IKK access on at least some Rouge flights where they expect to sell out (in advance of actually selling out).

SG

Last edited by Snow Goose; Jan 20, 2015 at 7:57 pm
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Old Jan 20, 2015, 8:39 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Snow Goose
I have never seen a situation where a flight is oversold in economy but AC is still willing to sell 5+ Flex fares for $389 each. Usually only Latitude or higher fares are available when the flight approaches an oversell situation, and certainly after reaching capacity. As an additional data point, 3 business class IKK seats were available on the first flight that I noticed this pattern on, even though no economy IKK was available. It has been long-standing AC policy to NOT allow IKK of business class seats if the economy cabin is oversold.

I have already moved on - changed my travel plans rather than pursue the matter further. Having said that, until or unless Ben or another AC representative clarifies the situation I'm starting to believe that AC has begun to restrict IKK access on at least some Rouge flights where they expect to sell out (in advance of actually selling out).

SG
J IKK is consistently tied to R (I don't think I've seen any examples where that's not the case), and I've seen flights that are J4 R4 Y0.

I've seen some mid Flex fares (H I think) on flights that were sold out.

I think if you're not willing to call Aeroplan and ask the simple question of how many seats have been booked on the flight, then you shouldn't be making accusations. Get that answer, and then everything's fair game

Edit: In fact, I can see a mainline YVR-YYZ flight that's J0 Y3...Q1. No IKK available. Q is a halfway down the list of flex fares

Last edited by canadiancow; Jan 20, 2015 at 9:50 pm
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Old Jan 20, 2015, 11:14 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
J IKK is consistently tied to R (I don't think I've seen any examples where that's not the case), and I've seen flights that are J4 R4 Y0.

I've seen some mid Flex fares (H I think) on flights that were sold out.

I think if you're not willing to call Aeroplan and ask the simple question of how many seats have been booked on the flight, then you shouldn't be making accusations. Get that answer, and then everything's fair game

Edit: In fact, I can see a mainline YVR-YYZ flight that's J0 Y3...Q1. No IKK available. Q is a halfway down the list of flex fares
Unless AC has changed things this year, you cannot IKK J award seats when the flight is oversold period. It doesn't matter if the flight is J9R9 or whatever.

To your second point, why would Aeroplan have even the slightest clue as to whether the flight is oversold or not? That is information that only AC should/could have.(or am I missing something?).

Finally, I'm not really making accusations or trying to smear AC - anyone can see from my posting history that I choose to fly AC and generally give them the benefit of the doubt. Having said that, even the most ardent SE100k flyer is aware that there have been negative changes to IKK reward availability this year and every year for the past half decade. Hopefully you are correct and this isn't another one.

SG
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 8:45 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Snow Goose
begun to restrict IKK access on at least some Rouge flights where they expect to sell out (in advance of actually selling out).

SG
Rouge flights sell out?-I don't believe it!
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 9:16 am
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Originally Posted by BlondeBomber
Rouge flights sell out?-I don't believe it!
Have you ever, as you're going through security, proudly proclaimed that you are "the bomber"?
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 9:24 am
  #28  
 
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Figured I would check this out looking at March break which is when I would expect flights to be pretty full YYZ-MCO. It seems that it is pretty open in Economy for direct flights - Business is a bit more restricted (many of the flights are 1 or more stop with mixed Bus/Econ) - but all in all there do seem to be plenty of IKK seats available where there are no standard classic reward seats. This query was for 3 pax - Sun 8 Mar to Sun 15 Mar "dates flexible".

Perhaps things have changed since the OP originally tried?



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Old Jan 21, 2015, 9:40 am
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Geoflying: the calendars are interesting, but not necessarily all that accurate. In recent searches, all the yellow days indicate is that a flight is available in economy--even if your search is specific to J. At least that seemed to be the behaviour to me for international destinations.
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 9:57 am
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Originally Posted by ridefar
Geoflying: the calendars are interesting, but not necessarily all that accurate. In recent searches, all the yellow days indicate is that a flight is available in economy--even if your search is specific to J. At least that seemed to be the behaviour to me for international destinations.
Well I didn't want to post all the detail but a random inspection of the actual flights available did show plenty of them.
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