AC Overbooking of Business Class ?
Jan 16, 2015, 1:53 pm
#31
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,342
I've been told that HKG is typically a very high "no-show" destination for J passengers, so AC overbooks J on the route to keep the cabin relatively full of revenue pax at flight time instead of dispatching 1/2 empty/half full of upgraders. However, around CNY, the no-show ratio plummets, and AC's revenue management system has had, at least in the past, a difficult time taking into account taking this into account. Hence, chaos and lots of compensation paid. Might even be worse this year because the 77W HD has even fewer J seats than the 77W.
Jan 16, 2015, 2:14 pm
#32
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,515
A couple of years ago I was flying YYZ-GVA (with the stop in YUL), Z fare, and was seated in 8K on a 763. J cabin full on YYZ-YUL and YUL-GVA sectors.
In YUL they decided that 8K needed to become a pilot rest seat, so I was without a seat as J was now "overbooked"
The gate agent told me there was only 1 passenger who was upgraded (It was a SE MM booked in full Y). They were the person downgraded (and not happy about it).
In YUL they decided that 8K needed to become a pilot rest seat, so I was without a seat as J was now "overbooked"
The gate agent told me there was only 1 passenger who was upgraded (It was a SE MM booked in full Y). They were the person downgraded (and not happy about it).
Jan 16, 2015, 4:05 pm
#33
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,324
I think this was discussed before on another thread, but where do Aeroplan rewards fit it to getting bumped? Would it be something like this?
- op-ups
- e-upgrades
- Aeroplan rewards
- revenue J
And then status in each category? Fair to assume an SE on an e-upgrade would get downgraded before pax w/no status with an Aeroplan or revenue ticket in J?
- op-ups
- e-upgrades
- Aeroplan rewards
- revenue J
And then status in each category? Fair to assume an SE on an e-upgrade would get downgraded before pax w/no status with an Aeroplan or revenue ticket in J?
Jan 16, 2015, 4:27 pm
#34
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
So $ for $, on that flight alone (as irrational as that sounds), that revenue J pax has brought in more $ than an Aeroplan redemption in J - and as we know AC focuses on short term shareholder value, so my thoughts are (IMO) that the SE should be bumped last. Sure, they've brought in the more money over time but loyalty isn't as chum as it used to be. I dunno, just my thought
Jan 16, 2015, 4:45 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,803
I'm pretty sure (and this isn't a jab at AC at all) that a non status in revenue J will not be bumped and the AC SE on an AE ticket would be. Why? AC has said if you want to be up front, pay to sit up front, that would indicate a mentality that revenue is the most important thing that matters and that loyalty, really doesn't.
So $ for $, on that flight alone (as irrational as that sounds), that revenue J pax has brought in more $ than an Aeroplan redemption in J - and as we know AC focuses on short term shareholder value, so my thoughts are (IMO) that the SE should be bumped last. Sure, they've brought in the more money over time but loyalty isn't as chum as it used to be. I dunno, just my thought
So $ for $, on that flight alone (as irrational as that sounds), that revenue J pax has brought in more $ than an Aeroplan redemption in J - and as we know AC focuses on short term shareholder value, so my thoughts are (IMO) that the SE should be bumped last. Sure, they've brought in the more money over time but loyalty isn't as chum as it used to be. I dunno, just my thought
AC might bump a non-status Aeroplan ticket holder before a non-status paid J.
OTOH, meal priority continues being based on status.
So bottom line, we don't really know, and the question remains largely hypothetical anyway. Only in case of significant equipment change would this really come into play.
In that scenario (and actually in all scenarios), other factors such as connections, alternate flights/routes, alternate flights, and the like, might also come into play.
In many cases there is room for flexibility. And presumably significant equipment changes will be allocated to flights for which there is flexibility.
A different and much harder scenario is cancellation. But of course that's a different topic and the priority sequence for reaccommodating is up to the airline.
Jan 16, 2015, 4:50 pm
#36
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
Jan 16, 2015, 5:19 pm
#38
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: YYZ most of the time
Programs: AC SE100K MM, Princess Elite
Posts: 3,921
Jan 16, 2015, 5:32 pm
#40
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,324
I'm pretty sure (and this isn't a jab at AC at all) that a non status in revenue J will not be bumped and the AC SE on an AE ticket would be. Why? AC has said if you want to be up front, pay to sit up front, that would indicate a mentality that revenue is the most important thing that matters and that loyalty, really doesn't.
So $ for $, on that flight alone (as irrational as that sounds), that revenue J pax has brought in more $ than an Aeroplan redemption in J - and as we know AC focuses on short term shareholder value, so my thoughts are (IMO) that the SE should be bumped last. Sure, they've brought in the more money over time but loyalty isn't as chum as it used to be. I dunno, just my thought
So $ for $, on that flight alone (as irrational as that sounds), that revenue J pax has brought in more $ than an Aeroplan redemption in J - and as we know AC focuses on short term shareholder value, so my thoughts are (IMO) that the SE should be bumped last. Sure, they've brought in the more money over time but loyalty isn't as chum as it used to be. I dunno, just my thought
Very different from R (at time of booking, you're in Y).
And from AC's perspective, think about someone like Dorian or jaysona flying on points. Are they the kind of person you want to downgrade? The GA can't see their spend.
Jan 16, 2015, 5:35 pm
#41
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: AC E50k, A3*G, UA*S, MR Titanium, HHonors Gold, Carlson Gold, NEXUS
Posts: 3,669
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (BB10; Touch) AppleWebKit/537.35+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/10.2.1.3442 Mobile Safari/537.35+)
Hey guys! Did you know that AC doesn't oversell J?!
Slowpoke.jpg
Hey guys! Did you know that AC doesn't oversell J?!
Slowpoke.jpg
Jan 16, 2015, 5:36 pm
#42
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
That being said I'm on a paid J ticket from YVR to East Africa for $3300 (TK) this trip! I normally pay >$6k and have paid as much as $9k for these monthly trips. $3300!
Jan 16, 2015, 5:57 pm
#43
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
But what has the Altitude program showed us? I'll pick on LockheedElectra (SE MM IIRC), they pissed him off bad, to a point where he said proverbially "I'm OUT (and **** you AC!)". Did AC care about his previous spend? No. So it's not like AC is thinking logically or long term.
Hey, i'll be the first to say that the Dorian, Nomad's, Jaysona's of the world should be AC VIP (I mean this 100%). If I were running a company and I had these 3 guys (to name just a few) bringing in gargantuan amounts of money, the SE benefits wouldn't even begin to offer what I would. Considering - they don't use most of them anyways!
Jan 16, 2015, 6:07 pm
#44
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
Jan 16, 2015, 6:37 pm
#45
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
I know it's rare you guys use the benefits that are given to you, that was my point Like jaysona with his > 300 eupgrade credits