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Time for AC to consider A380's, at least for some lucrative routes?

Time for AC to consider A380's, at least for some lucrative routes?

Old Nov 26, 14, 6:57 pm
  #1  
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Time for AC to consider A380's, at least for some lucrative routes?

I know the answer from AC is probably along the lines of "We currently have no plans to...", so this is more of a thought experiment/feasibility study type question?

Case in point: there are 4 flights per day direct YYZ-LHR. 2 763's, 1 77W, and 1 788. This is a grand total for the day of 517 Y, 21 PY, and 87 J

For comparison, an AF A380 has 9 F, 24 J, 38 PY, and 389 Y while LH A380 has 8 F, 98 J, 420 Y.

What is preventing AC from becoming the first North American airline from getting an A380? Granted that people travelling to London may not even fly direct, and thus perhaps even more passengers can justify the Flying Whale, I can't see what is preventing AC from ordering A380's for for these high load factor routes. They could fly it early enough from Toronto to arrive early in the morning in London for connections, and a later flight with another type of plane can leave later on in the day.

Besides terminal infrastructure, in both Pearson and Heathrow (and other airport pairings AC can consider), I'm not sure if I'm missing something here.

Cheers.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:13 pm
  #2  
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I believe the reason is the same as why 50% of flights within the US are currently on Regional Jets.... people prefer higher frequency to larger planes. All this despite what their words say, their wallets hold the truth.

Some people need to connect to other flights, others need to be there for a meeting at a certain time, others can't leave early and some can't leave late.

4 smaller planes are more profitable (systemwide) than 1 big plane.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:19 pm
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+1 to what PLeblond said.

It's also a lot easier to up/downgauge for different routes and seasonal demand when you have a fleet of 787s and 777s.

If you have an A380 in there, it's likely only going to work on 1 or 2 routes, and if the demand drops, you're flying the plane half empty.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:28 pm
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My understanding though is those flights are almost always full. Something almost like that happened, when Air France used to fly their A380 to Montreal. Now, the demand there dropped so it may reinforce the idea that it doesn't scale well with AC's business model.

Perhaps ordering just 1 or 2 A380's to justify only one airport pairing is a bit much, but here's hoping something will come of it.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:31 pm
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Who needs a 380 when you can get 460 odd on a 777, more than some airlines put on the 380 in the first place.

The new 777x slated for 2020ish will increase capacity even further. AC hasn't ordered any of course and doesn't need any with the 787's on the way in. But if it needs more planes with high capacity, it'll buy those which don't come with the risks associated with the 380, and the familiarity and maintenance savings too.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:41 pm
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Originally Posted by moorw003 View Post
Who needs a 380 when you can get 460 odd on a 777, more than some airlines put on the 380 in the first place.

The new 777x slated for 2020ish will increase capacity even further. AC hasn't ordered any of course and doesn't need any with the 787's on the way in. But if it needs more planes with high capacity, it'll buy those which don't come with the risks associated with the 380, and the familiarity and maintenance savings too.
Which makes me wonder what Emirates is doing with so many (single biggest buyer I understand). That's a business model which seems insane.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:52 pm
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Originally Posted by TravellingBeard View Post
Which makes me wonder what Emirates is doing with so many (single biggest buyer I understand). That's a business model which seems insane.
Emirates is 99.9999% connecting larger international markets. very little O/D and 1 connect to (almost) any 2 points in the world. So they can take the 10 biggest cities in the world and connect them with huge planes.

Example, LHR-DXB probably has 75% of its passengers going onto other destinations. Some on 777s, some on 330s, some on other A380s. To Africa, India, Asia, Oceania, etc.

When Airbus launched the A380 they saw the Emirates model or extremely high traffic intra Asian traffic (Like Shanghai to Peking).
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:54 pm
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Originally Posted by moorw003 View Post
Who needs a 380 when you can get 460 odd on a 777, more than some airlines put on the 380 in the first place.
^

EK with more premium floor space can't have the same 77W density flying e.g. LHR-DXB as AC. The 380 still has way more floor space and passenger carrying capacity in similar F/J/Y breakdown ratios.

Plus, do any of us really want to end up on a 3x5x3 AC A380?
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Old Nov 26, 14, 8:19 pm
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AC probably could buy a few high-density A330-300's to serve YVR/YYC-YYZ quite economically instead of the excess numbers of narrow-bodies they use, but an A380? Absurd! There's almost no slot-constrained airports such would work at, and imagine the chaos if one went mechanical throughout the AC network?
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Old Nov 26, 14, 8:21 pm
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There's a higher chance that AC will have a 777-EL (extra luxury) where by every seat is a 787 pod.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 8:44 pm
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This is a very airliners.net question. Frequency is king for AC and having a small subfleet of such aircraft could and would create a nightmare for logistical reason alone. The amount of money an airline invest in spare parts is the main reason why most like to have a common fleet.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 9:03 pm
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Originally Posted by industry_killer View Post
This is a very airliners.net question. Frequency is king for AC and having a small subfleet of such aircraft could and would create a nightmare for logistical reason alone. The amount of money an airline invest in spare parts is the main reason why most like to have a common fleet.
I guess it's more pride than anything else...would be nice if we were the first North American airline to have them.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 9:15 pm
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post
Emirates is 99.9999% connecting larger international markets. very little O/D and 1 connect to (almost) any 2 points in the world. So they can take the 10 biggest cities in the world and connect them with huge planes.

Example, LHR-DXB probably has 75% of its passengers going onto other destinations. Some on 777s, some on 330s, some on other A380s. To Africa, India, Asia, Oceania, etc.

When Airbus launched the A380 they saw the Emirates model or extremely high traffic intra Asian traffic (Like Shanghai to Peking).

When Airbus launched the A380, Emirates were a small, irrelevant airline. So Airbus couldn't see any Emirates model. Nor did they design the aircraft for China. It would not have its 8000nm range.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 9:16 pm
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Originally Posted by TravellingBeard View Post
I guess it's more pride than anything else...would be nice if we were the first North American airline to have them.
Why? It's an ugly airplane!Even in their most charitable moments, I don't think anyone has described an A380 as "graceful".

Seriously, I can't see AC buying any, it's just too big and inflexible for AC's operations. The days of buying planes for a specific route simply for pride (e.g. Concorde) are over. Mind you in the 80's and 90's those 7 planes generated 25% of BA's profits...
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Old Nov 26, 14, 9:19 pm
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The best looking plane is the 747. Haven't flown one in 10 years, and will be flying one tomorrow. Cannot wait!!
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