AC Rouge A319s getting 2*2 J seating
#31
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
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#32
Join Date: Feb 2013
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From the ballpark capacity I was told, Rouge is a good guess that I honestly hadn't though of. But I'm not sure if the new pilot contract would allow that or not. Since they are replacements for E90s, I thought they'd have to remain mainline despite the 321s coming from a source other than mainline and thus eligible to go to Rouge on that clause.
Perhaps AC can work around it by having AC mainline pilots at mainline wages fly Rouge branded aircraft? I don't know enough to say for certain. I guess I can wait 4-5 months to find out.
#33
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,380
I just meant they are will likely be about as far from 'minty fresh' as you can imagine.
From the ballpark capacity I was told, Rouge is a good guess that I honestly hadn't though of. But I'm not sure if the new pilot contract would allow that or not. Since they are replacements for E90s, I thought they'd have to remain mainline despite the 321s coming from a source other than mainline and thus eligible to go to Rouge on that clause.
Perhaps AC can work around it by having AC mainline pilots at mainline wages fly Rouge branded aircraft? I don't know enough to say for certain. I guess I can wait 4-5 months to find out.
From the ballpark capacity I was told, Rouge is a good guess that I honestly hadn't though of. But I'm not sure if the new pilot contract would allow that or not. Since they are replacements for E90s, I thought they'd have to remain mainline despite the 321s coming from a source other than mainline and thus eligible to go to Rouge on that clause.
Perhaps AC can work around it by having AC mainline pilots at mainline wages fly Rouge branded aircraft? I don't know enough to say for certain. I guess I can wait 4-5 months to find out.
Honestly, when I first read about leasing 321s, I figured it would be for routes where domestic 767s/330s are currently operating and they are not profitable for those routes: YYZ-YYC, YUL-YVR, YYZ-YHZ those YYZ-YVR routes that are not a repositioning of aircraft for long haul international flights.
With the new J setup on the 321s, I see than as workhorses for higher traffic domestic routes. But you obviously have more insider information that I do, so I await, as you seem to be doing also.
#34
Join Date: Apr 2013
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#35
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: YXE
Posts: 3,050
Your Florida/Leisure comment made me thing of Rouge.
Honestly, when I first read about leasing 321s, I figured it would be for routes where domestic 767s/330s are currently operating and they are not profitable for those routes: YYZ-YYC, YUL-YVR, YYZ-YHZ those YYZ-YVR routes that are not a repositioning of aircraft for long haul international flights.
Honestly, when I first read about leasing 321s, I figured it would be for routes where domestic 767s/330s are currently operating and they are not profitable for those routes: YYZ-YYC, YUL-YVR, YYZ-YHZ those YYZ-YVR routes that are not a repositioning of aircraft for long haul international flights.
With the new J setup on the 321s, I see than as workhorses for higher traffic domestic routes.
#36
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Don't see why an A330 wouldn't be profitable for those routes. All-in Trip costs are not 2X that of an A321, but passenger count is. (source). This appears to be all about incremental capacity growth, ie: substituting the E90s for A319s, A319s for A320s, A320s for A321's, etc. After all, 10 E90s will be leaving the fleet.
Yup, they'll be on YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YYC. E90-only places like YXE/YQR will get upgauged to the 319 and/or 319 Rouged. Etc.
Yup, they'll be on YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YYC. E90-only places like YXE/YQR will get upgauged to the 319 and/or 319 Rouged. Etc.
#37
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,380
Don't see why an A330 wouldn't be profitable for those routes. All-in Trip costs are not 2X that of an A321, but passenger count is. (source). This appears to be all about incremental capacity growth, ie: substituting the E90s for A319s, A319s for A320s, A320s for A321's, etc. After all, 10 E90s will be leaving the fleet.
Yup, they'll be on YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YYC. E90-only places like YXE/YQR will get upgauged to the 319 and/or 319 Rouged. Etc.
Yup, they'll be on YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YYC. E90-only places like YXE/YQR will get upgauged to the 319 and/or 319 Rouged. Etc.
#38
Join Date: May 2012
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Calin said: "Performance of our leisure carrier subsidiary has continued to exceed our expectations. Just one year after its launch in July 2013, Air Canada rouge has served almost 2.5 million customers, including one million this past quarter, contributing to record system-wide load factors for the second consecutive quarter."
Approximately 55 per cent of this forecasted capacity increase will be through the continued lower-cost growth of Air Canada rouge
My interpretation is that with the conversion of routes to rouge, where the payroll costs are lower and more pax are crammed onto the planes, that yes indeed a greater profit can be taken. However, as consumers have a chance to experience AC rouge, and are dissatisfied, they will be more open to alternatives such as Sunwing and Air Transat. One of the key differences between these LCCs was AC's superior offering. IMO the pax are being pushed to rouge because there are limited options available on those specific routes. On routes where there are real alternatives, even if serviced by Sunwing and Air Transat, rouge will not necessarily be the number 1 preference. Given time, consumers will seek to avoid rouge. I don't think any other airline in the past 5 years has had the intense negative response as rouge has racked up as shown by feedback sites such as skytrax, and assorted air industry blogs. I believe that rouge in 3 years time will not be the rouge we see today.
#39
Suspended
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Yes and no. Please consider the following taken directly from AC investor highlights;
Calin said: "Performance of our leisure carrier subsidiary has continued to exceed our expectations. Just one year after its launch in July 2013, Air Canada rouge has served almost 2.5 million customers, including one million this past quarter, contributing to record system-wide load factors for the second consecutive quarter."
Approximately 55 per cent of this forecasted capacity increase will be through the continued lower-cost growth of Air Canada rouge
My interpretation is that with the conversion of routes to rouge, where the payroll costs are lower and more pax are crammed onto the planes, that yes indeed a greater profit can be taken. However, as consumers have a chance to experience AC rouge, and are dissatisfied, they will be more open to alternatives such as Sunwing and Air Transat. One of the key differences between these LCCs was AC's superior offering. IMO the pax are being pushed to rouge because there are limited options available on those specific routes. On routes where there are real alternatives, even if serviced by Sunwing and Air Transat, rouge will not necessarily be the number 1 preference. Given time, consumers will seek to avoid rouge. I don't think any other airline in the past 5 years has had the intense negative response as rouge has racked up as shown by feedback sites such as skytrax, and assorted air industry blogs. I believe that rouge in 3 years time will not be the rouge we see today.
Calin said: "Performance of our leisure carrier subsidiary has continued to exceed our expectations. Just one year after its launch in July 2013, Air Canada rouge has served almost 2.5 million customers, including one million this past quarter, contributing to record system-wide load factors for the second consecutive quarter."
Approximately 55 per cent of this forecasted capacity increase will be through the continued lower-cost growth of Air Canada rouge
My interpretation is that with the conversion of routes to rouge, where the payroll costs are lower and more pax are crammed onto the planes, that yes indeed a greater profit can be taken. However, as consumers have a chance to experience AC rouge, and are dissatisfied, they will be more open to alternatives such as Sunwing and Air Transat. One of the key differences between these LCCs was AC's superior offering. IMO the pax are being pushed to rouge because there are limited options available on those specific routes. On routes where there are real alternatives, even if serviced by Sunwing and Air Transat, rouge will not necessarily be the number 1 preference. Given time, consumers will seek to avoid rouge. I don't think any other airline in the past 5 years has had the intense negative response as rouge has racked up as shown by feedback sites such as skytrax, and assorted air industry blogs. I believe that rouge in 3 years time will not be the rouge we see today.
#41
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#42
Suspended
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Then he gets touchy when we are making opposing remarks.
#44
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#45
Formerly known as newbie elite
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