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AC Rouge A319s getting 2*2 J seating

AC Rouge A319s getting 2*2 J seating

Old Nov 7, 2014, 3:48 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by winnipegrev
I'm sorry to say I think AC has big Florida/leisure plans for them...
Hmmm. Not sure what that means. I know its about mid way between a 319 and a 767, so should I understand they may be 'blushing'?
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 3:53 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by PLeblond
Hmmm. Not sure what that means. I know its about mid way between a 319 and a 767, so should I understand they may be 'blushing'?
I just meant they are will likely be about as far from 'minty fresh' as you can imagine.

From the ballpark capacity I was told, Rouge is a good guess that I honestly hadn't though of. But I'm not sure if the new pilot contract would allow that or not. Since they are replacements for E90s, I thought they'd have to remain mainline despite the 321s coming from a source other than mainline and thus eligible to go to Rouge on that clause.

Perhaps AC can work around it by having AC mainline pilots at mainline wages fly Rouge branded aircraft? I don't know enough to say for certain. I guess I can wait 4-5 months to find out.
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 4:19 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by winnipegrev
I just meant they are will likely be about as far from 'minty fresh' as you can imagine.

From the ballpark capacity I was told, Rouge is a good guess that I honestly hadn't though of. But I'm not sure if the new pilot contract would allow that or not. Since they are replacements for E90s, I thought they'd have to remain mainline despite the 321s coming from a source other than mainline and thus eligible to go to Rouge on that clause.

Perhaps AC can work around it by having AC mainline pilots at mainline wages fly Rouge branded aircraft? I don't know enough to say for certain. I guess I can wait 4-5 months to find out.
Your Florida/Leisure comment made me thing of Rouge.

Honestly, when I first read about leasing 321s, I figured it would be for routes where domestic 767s/330s are currently operating and they are not profitable for those routes: YYZ-YYC, YUL-YVR, YYZ-YHZ those YYZ-YVR routes that are not a repositioning of aircraft for long haul international flights.

With the new J setup on the 321s, I see than as workhorses for higher traffic domestic routes. But you obviously have more insider information that I do, so I await, as you seem to be doing also.
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 5:01 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by winnipegrev
I'm sorry to say I think AC has big Florida/leisure plans for them...
If that's true, then maybe AC will make some arrangements for same-terminal lounge access at Fort Lauderdale and/or Miami... from what I understand, the closest *A lounge is in MCO
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 5:35 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by PLeblond
Your Florida/Leisure comment made me thing of Rouge.

Honestly, when I first read about leasing 321s, I figured it would be for routes where domestic 767s/330s are currently operating and they are not profitable for those routes: YYZ-YYC, YUL-YVR, YYZ-YHZ those YYZ-YVR routes that are not a repositioning of aircraft for long haul international flights.
Don't see why an A330 wouldn't be profitable for those routes. All-in Trip costs are not 2X that of an A321, but passenger count is. (source). This appears to be all about incremental capacity growth, ie: substituting the E90s for A319s, A319s for A320s, A320s for A321's, etc. After all, 10 E90s will be leaving the fleet.

With the new J setup on the 321s, I see than as workhorses for higher traffic domestic routes.
Yup, they'll be on YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YYC. E90-only places like YXE/YQR will get upgauged to the 319 and/or 319 Rouged. Etc.
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 5:44 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by pitz
Don't see why an A330 wouldn't be profitable for those routes. All-in Trip costs are not 2X that of an A321, but passenger count is. (source). This appears to be all about incremental capacity growth, ie: substituting the E90s for A319s, A319s for A320s, A320s for A321's, etc. After all, 10 E90s will be leaving the fleet.



Yup, they'll be on YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YYC. E90-only places like YXE/YQR will get upgauged to the 319 and/or 319 Rouged. Etc.
FLL is also a big 321 station through the winter months.
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 5:48 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by pitz
Don't see why an A330 wouldn't be profitable for those routes. All-in Trip costs are not 2X that of an A321, but passenger count is. (source). This appears to be all about incremental capacity growth, ie: substituting the E90s for A319s, A319s for A320s, A320s for A321's, etc. After all, 10 E90s will be leaving the fleet.



Yup, they'll be on YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YYC. E90-only places like YXE/YQR will get upgauged to the 319 and/or 319 Rouged. Etc.
Your link does not seem to be working for me, but your point is well taken.
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 7:06 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by yvr76
Did you not hear the earnings report from yesterday? rouge in particular has done very well for AC.
Yes and no. Please consider the following taken directly from AC investor highlights;
Calin said: "Performance of our leisure carrier subsidiary has continued to exceed our expectations. Just one year after its launch in July 2013, Air Canada rouge has served almost 2.5 million customers, including one million this past quarter, contributing to record system-wide load factors for the second consecutive quarter."

Approximately 55 per cent of this forecasted capacity increase will be through the continued lower-cost growth of Air Canada rouge


My interpretation is that with the conversion of routes to rouge, where the payroll costs are lower and more pax are crammed onto the planes, that yes indeed a greater profit can be taken. However, as consumers have a chance to experience AC rouge, and are dissatisfied, they will be more open to alternatives such as Sunwing and Air Transat. One of the key differences between these LCCs was AC's superior offering. IMO the pax are being pushed to rouge because there are limited options available on those specific routes. On routes where there are real alternatives, even if serviced by Sunwing and Air Transat, rouge will not necessarily be the number 1 preference. Given time, consumers will seek to avoid rouge. I don't think any other airline in the past 5 years has had the intense negative response as rouge has racked up as shown by feedback sites such as skytrax, and assorted air industry blogs. I believe that rouge in 3 years time will not be the rouge we see today.
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 8:52 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer
Yes and no. Please consider the following taken directly from AC investor highlights;
Calin said: "Performance of our leisure carrier subsidiary has continued to exceed our expectations. Just one year after its launch in July 2013, Air Canada rouge has served almost 2.5 million customers, including one million this past quarter, contributing to record system-wide load factors for the second consecutive quarter."

Approximately 55 per cent of this forecasted capacity increase will be through the continued lower-cost growth of Air Canada rouge


My interpretation is that with the conversion of routes to rouge, where the payroll costs are lower and more pax are crammed onto the planes, that yes indeed a greater profit can be taken. However, as consumers have a chance to experience AC rouge, and are dissatisfied, they will be more open to alternatives such as Sunwing and Air Transat. One of the key differences between these LCCs was AC's superior offering. IMO the pax are being pushed to rouge because there are limited options available on those specific routes. On routes where there are real alternatives, even if serviced by Sunwing and Air Transat, rouge will not necessarily be the number 1 preference. Given time, consumers will seek to avoid rouge. I don't think any other airline in the past 5 years has had the intense negative response as rouge has racked up as shown by feedback sites such as skytrax, and assorted air industry blogs. I believe that rouge in 3 years time will not be the rouge we see today.
Most people fly Sunwing and Air Transat for "all in" holidays(air,hotel,etc). I believe their business model is different than Rouge. Rouge main business model is mostly low yield routes. You and a few other may avoid Rouge, but the majority of public fly by price. The main Rouge route that people don't like is anything LAX. If it is such a profitable route, why does UA fly RJ's to YVR. Yes, Rouge will most likely change/adjust over time, like possible 2x2 J seats as discussed on flyertalk, but all business adjust over time. I would rather have Rouge flight than no flights. If other airlines fly Rouge routes, fly them, but stop the entitlement.
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 9:58 pm
  #40  
 
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Isn't AC already operating low-J configured A321s per ac.com?

14J/169Y vs. the norm of 20J/154Y...
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 10:42 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by DLGrkItalNY
Isn't AC already operating low-J configured A321s per ac.com?

14J/169Y vs. the norm of 20J/154Y...
I think the first is being converted to 14/169 right now, but that isn't the possible new-new config.
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 10:57 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by flybit
really is AC listening?
They tried Tango then ZIP both failed, huge waste of money.
Now they ripped out the J seats and next they put them back in.

I am not impressed.
All of those are proud launches by our esteemed Ben S.

Then he gets touchy when we are making opposing remarks.
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Old Nov 7, 2014, 11:12 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by Allvest
All of those are proud launches by our esteemed Ben S.

Then he gets touchy when we are making opposing remarks.
Very likely because you are not willing to acknowledge the truth.
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Old Nov 8, 2014, 6:31 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by peano
Is someone at AC listening? Perhaps so. More rouge Plus seats are badly needed as well as noted above.

How about adding a closet and denying the FA's all the overhead bin space up front while we are at it?
^^^^
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Old Nov 8, 2014, 9:13 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by upgradesecret
Very likely because you are not willing to acknowledge the truth.
That Tango and Zip were resounding success stories? I mean in terms of management payouts perhaps, yes. But in terms of working out for AC? I am surely missing something however.
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