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Aeroplan City Pair mileage (new pseudo-MPM)

Old Oct 30, 2014, 12:48 pm
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Last edit by: yerffej201
="5"%New Aeroplan City Pair mileages:

How to get the MPM online: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28509402-post231.html

Between:

Europe 1-Asia 1:
FRA-NRT: 9642 (q)
NRT-NCE: 10,302 (q)

Europe 1 - Asia 2:
VIE-SGN 8464 (q)
GRZ-DPS 9965 (q)

Europe 2-Asia 1:
DME-NRT: 9,091 -- 7,288(q) (they lowered it??)
DME-KIX: 7,108 (q)
LED-NRT: 7,398 (q)
DME-HKT: 6,249 (q)


Europe 1-North America

Europe 1-Australia
-FRA-SYD: 16700 (RTW:FRA-BKK-SYD-ICN-ORD-YYZ-FRA)
-CDG-PPT: 16065
-CDG-AKL: 18952

Asia 1-Asia 1
-PVG-SIN: 4278 (q)

Asia 2-Asia 1
-MNL-PEK: 2990 (q)

Asia 1-South Pacific
-NRT-RAR: 9170 (q)

Asia 1-Southern South America
-PVG-EZE: 20142 (q)

Asia 2-Northern South America
-SIN-UIO: 20279 (q)


North America-Europe 1
YVR-CPH: 7609 (c)
YVR-ZRH: 8363 (c)
YVR-LYR: 6196 (q)
YVR-TOS: 7164 (q)
YVR-KEF: 8019 (q)
BOS-VCE: 6453 (c)
YYZ-ARN: 6099 (q)
YYC-CPH: 7958 (c)
YVR-DUB: 7609 (c)
LAX-DUB: 8849 (c)
SAN-DUB: 9309 (c)
YVR-CDG: 8383 (c)
SAN-CDG: 10145 (c)
YVR-OSL: 7609 (c)
SAN-OSL: 9627 (c)



North America-Europe 2
YUL-KRR: 8163 (q)
YEG-IST: 9196 (q)
YVR-WAW: 8473
YVR-BUD: 8934
YVR-ATH: 10097
YVR-VKO: 8490 (q)
YVR-IST: 9920 (c)
LAX-IST: 11387 (c)
JFK-IST: 8275 (c)
MIA-IST: 9881 (c)
SFO-IST: 11137 (c)
ORD-IST: 9077 (c)
IAH-IST: 10571 (c)
IAH-BJV: 10767 (c)

North America-Asia 1
-YVR-HKG - 8381 (c)
-YVR-HIJ 7092
-YYC-BKK - 9776 (q)
-YEG-HKG 9113
-YEG-SIN 11377
-YEG-BKK 10382
-YEG-HKG is 9137 (q)
-YEG-SIN is 13447 (q) May 20, 2017

-ORD-BKK - 13753 (q)
-YYZ-BKK - 11055 (q) YYZ-BKK 11905
-YYZ-HND - 9088
-YYZ-NRT - 9049 (q)
-YYZ-ICN - 9297 (q)
-YYZ-PEK - 9228 (q)
-YYZ-HKG - 10957 (q)
-YYZ-OKA - 10200 (q)
-YYZ-TPE - 10544
-YYT-TPE - 10389 (q)
-YYT-HKG - 10576 (q)
-YYT-MFM - 10582 (q)
-ICN-YUL - 9260 (q)
-ICN-YEG - 7351 (q)
-TYO-YUL - 9071 (q)
-OSA-YOW - 9256 (q)

North America-Asia 2
YQB-MNL - 13600
YUL-DPS - 16,240 (q)
YEG-KUL 13301
YEG-PNH 12298
YEG-CNX - 11822
YVR-RGN 12060
YVR-BKK 12150
YVR-SIN 13196
YVR-SGN 12120
YVR-MNL 10854
YVR-HKT - 12824 (q)
YYT-SIN - 14493 (q) Aug 17, 2018
YYT-BKK - 13045 (q)
YYT-SGN - 13585 (q)
YYZ-SIN - 13095 (q)
YYZ-HKT - 12480 (q)
YYZ-DPS - 16293(q) May 22, 2017
SFO-BKK - 13956
YOW-BKK - 12156 as per syntron's post.
SAN-KUL - 14729
SFO-KUL - 14012
KUL-LAX - 14565

North America-Australia, New Zealand
YYZ-SYD: 15540 (q)
YYZ-AKL: 13816 (q)
YYZ-MEL 16210 (q)
YYZ-PER 18050 (q)
YUL-PER 18164 (q)
NYC-PER 18633 (q)
PER-SFO 14714 (q)
BDA-PER 20444 (q)
MEL-YVR 13160 (q)
YEG-MEL 13921 (q)
YEG-AKL 12078 (q)
YEG-PER 14693 (c)
BNE-YVR 11820 (q)
YVR-PER 14765 (q)
SYD-YVR 12417 (q)
JFK-SYD 15965 (q)
JFK-MEL 16669 (q)
YYC-SYD 13,096 (q)
YYC-MEL 13,829 (q)
YYC-BNE 12,468 (q)
YYC-PER 15,384 (q)
MIA-PER 18,230 (q)
MIA-SYD 14,938 (q)
MIA-BNE 14,670 (q)

As per Novagirl17's post, Nov 28, 2016
YHZ-MEL, 17,460
YHZ-SYD, 16,735
YHZ-AKL, 15,068

As per Beavertails on 2018-01-08:
YOW-PER = 18,121
YUL-PER = 18,194
YHZ-PER = 18,462

As per ffsim on 2018-02-14:
YUL-SYD = 15,968

North America-Indian Subcontinent
-YVR-MLE: 14270 (q)


North America-Northern South America

North America-Southern South America
YVR-LIM 8364 (q)
SEA-LIM 8170 (q)
YVR-SCL 10813 (q) Apr 1, 2017
YVR-EZE 11,557 (q) May 10, 2017

North America-East, West & South Africa
YVR-JNB 16362 (q)
YVR-CPT 16108 (q)
YVR-LVI 15420 (q)
YVR-VFA 15474 (q)
YYZ-SEZ 13750 (q)
YVR-MRU 16700 (q)
YVR-SEZ 14956 (q)
YVR-MQX 12844 (q)
YYJ-MRU 16718 (q)
LAX-MRU 18356 (q)
SFO-MRU 17998 (q)
LAX-JNB 16585 (q)
SFO-JNB 16863 (q)
YYZ-SEZ 13750 (q)
YYZ-JNB 13268
JFK-MRU 14790

North America- Middle East
YVR - FRU 9935 (q)
YVR - TAS 10,100




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Aeroplan City Pair mileage (new pseudo-MPM)

Old Oct 9, 2015, 10:15 am
  #91  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
Just called AP to look into this...

YVR-JNB 16158 (quoted)
YVR-CPT 16108 (quoted)

Both of those well exceed the Expertflyer values YVR-JNB there is listed at 12412 (atlantic) 15070 (pacific) and YVR-CPT 12813 (atlantic only).

So I followed up by asking her does that mean as long as I stay below 16158 it doesn't matter which way I cross? She didn't really answer other than by saying they have to validate the route, so take that FWIW. But those can both be added to the sticky. I'm quite pleased that the agents knew exactly what I was talking about and answered, the whole thing took less time than getting through the menus.
drvannostren is offline  
Old Oct 9, 2015, 11:21 am
  #92  
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Posts: 2,996
Originally Posted by drvannostren
Just called AP to look into this...

YVR-JNB 16158 (quoted)
YVR-CPT 16108 (quoted)

Both of those well exceed the Expertflyer values YVR-JNB there is listed at 12412 (atlantic) 15070 (pacific) and YVR-CPT 12813 (atlantic only).

So I followed up by asking her does that mean as long as I stay below 16158 it doesn't matter which way I cross? She didn't really answer other than by saying they have to validate the route, so take that FWIW. But those can both be added to the sticky. I'm quite pleased that the agents knew exactly what I was talking about and answered, the whole thing took less time than getting through the menus.
Certain routings will have MPM bonuses/penalties attached to them, but generally yes.

You should really drop your EF MPM anchoring thinking on AP. It's no longer relevant enough.
kwflyer is offline  
Old Oct 9, 2015, 2:37 pm
  #93  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by drvannostren
Just called AP to look into this...

YVR-JNB 16158 (quoted)
YVR-CPT 16108 (quoted)

Both of those well exceed the Expertflyer values YVR-JNB there is listed at 12412 (atlantic) 15070 (pacific) and YVR-CPT 12813 (atlantic only).

So I followed up by asking her does that mean as long as I stay below 16158 it doesn't matter which way I cross? She didn't really answer other than by saying they have to validate the route, so take that FWIW. But those can both be added to the sticky. I'm quite pleased that the agents knew exactly what I was talking about and answered, the whole thing took less time than getting through the menus.
Example:

YVR-SFO-CTU-CAN-SIN-CPT is 16077 and is accepted in the Aeroplan online system. I had a few routings in the 16300 range and those were rejected. I only got as far as selecting the flights, as I don't have enough miles to click through, but that should give you some confidence in those numbers.
joeags is offline  
Old Oct 17, 2015, 5:04 pm
  #94  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 357
This booked TATL routing seems to have enough backtracking to be noteworthy...

BOS-YYZ-YUL-IST-VCE
6453mi (calculated with GC Map)

No MPM distance quoted by Aeroplan agent
gateguard0 is offline  
Old Oct 17, 2015, 6:50 pm
  #95  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,784
Originally Posted by gateguard0
This booked TATL routing seems to have enough backtracking to be noteworthy...

BOS-YYZ-YUL-IST-VCE
6453mi (calculated with GC Map)

No MPM distance quoted by Aeroplan agent
I think this is more of a "published routing" rather than MPM
N.A. to Europe 1/2 via IST has always been there, I think
I can find YYZ-IST-any Europe 1/2 city easily


BUT.... it severely impacts your return/inbound options for a round-trip reward, as many options will get greyed out
jerryhung is offline  
Old Oct 17, 2015, 7:33 pm
  #96  
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Originally Posted by jerryhung
I think this is more of a "published routing" rather than MPM
N.A. to Europe 1/2 via IST has always been there, I think
I can find YYZ-IST-any Europe 1/2 city easily


BUT.... it severely impacts your return/inbound options for a round-trip reward, as many options will get greyed out
Published routings are no longer relevant on AP.
kwflyer is offline  
Old Oct 17, 2015, 8:02 pm
  #97  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by kwflyer
Published routings are no longer relevant on AP.
That's my impression too. As an example, have a look at my post in the "FAQ: How to Save Money/YQ on Aeroplan Europe redemptions" thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25579754-post162.html

Lots of published routings from YYT are no longer valid Aeroplan redemptions. YYT-YYZ-FRA doesn't work, but YYT-YUL-FRA does (some 300 miles less "backtracking").
gateguard0 is offline  
Old Oct 17, 2015, 8:23 pm
  #98  
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Originally Posted by gateguard0
That's my impression too. As an example, have a look at my post in the "FAQ: How to Save Money/YQ on Aeroplan Europe redemptions" thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25579754-post162.html

Lots of published routings from YYT are no longer valid Aeroplan redemptions. YYT-YYZ-FRA doesn't work, but YYT-YUL-FRA does (some 300 miles less "backtracking").
Oh I'm quite aware thanks. I'm just still surprised that a year later after the rules have been changed, people still believe the published routing/M5 rules apply.
kwflyer is offline  
Old Oct 17, 2015, 8:38 pm
  #99  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by kwflyer
Oh I'm quite aware thanks. I'm just still surprised that a year later after the rules have been changed, people still believe the published routing/M5 rules apply.
Hard to blame anyone when there are no published routing rules and the Aeroplan website has a handful of different ways (all equally uninformative) to tell you the "maximum allowable distance permitted" has been exceeded.

Just wanted to provide a simple example for others of how published routings don't seem to matter anymore.
gateguard0 is offline  
Old Oct 17, 2015, 9:48 pm
  #100  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,784
Originally Posted by kwflyer
Published routings are no longer relevant on AP.
That was my take too (no more published routing)
but I honestly don't know what to call the "N.A.-IST-Europe 1/2" option if not "published routing"

because MPM sounds weird too and in the case of YYZ-CDG vs. YYZ-IST-CDG (I believe AP.com offers options via IST), it's +73% more miles (3751 vs. 6500!!!)
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yyz-cdg,+yyz-ist-cdg


I'd be happy to call it something...
jerryhung is offline  
Old Oct 18, 2015, 8:06 am
  #101  
 
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Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by jerryhung
That was my take too (no more published routing)
but I honestly don't know what to call the "N.A.-IST-Europe 1/2" option if not "published routing"

because MPM sounds weird too and in the case of YYZ-CDG vs. YYZ-IST-CDG (I believe AP.com offers options via IST), it's +73% more miles (3751 vs. 6500!!!)
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=yyz-cdg,+yyz-ist-cdg


I'd be happy to call it something...
I tried unsuccessfully to find YYZ-IST-CDG routings in a one-way Aeroplan search.

I then used the multi-city search to force an IST connection -- that is, searching YYZ-IST on Day 1, IST-CDG on Day 2 (looking for < 24 hour connections), CDG-YYZ as a dummy return in the future just to get the multi-city search to validate. After selecting the YYZ-IST direct flight, any IST-CDG option with a connection time < 24 hours was greyed out. It only allowed connections > 24 hours, turning the award into Europe 2 with IST as the destination.

Point is that YYZ-IST-CDG does not appear to be a valid routing. For what it's worth, YUL-IST-CDG results are similar.

My guess would be that IST can be included in some [NA Non-Hub --> IST --> Europe 1 Non-Hub] routings, but most [NA Hub --> IST --> Europe 1 Hub] routings don't work anymore. I'd be happy to be wrong though...
gateguard0 is offline  
Old Oct 18, 2015, 9:12 am
  #102  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Posts: 985
Originally Posted by gateguard0
I tried unsuccessfully to find YYZ-IST-CDG routings in a one-way Aeroplan search.

I then used the multi-city search to force an IST connection -- that is, searching YYZ-IST on Day 1, IST-CDG on Day 2 (looking for < 24 hour connections), CDG-YYZ as a dummy return in the future just to get the multi-city search to validate. After selecting the YYZ-IST direct flight, any IST-CDG option with a connection time < 24 hours was greyed out. It only allowed connections > 24 hours, turning the award into Europe 2 with IST as the destination.

Point is that YYZ-IST-CDG does not appear to be a valid routing. For what it's worth, YUL-IST-CDG results are similar.

My guess would be that IST can be included in some [NA Non-Hub --> IST --> Europe 1 Non-Hub] routings, but most [NA Hub --> IST --> Europe 1 Hub] routings don't work anymore. I'd be happy to be wrong though...
I'm not quite sure what was going on in your search, but I just ran the same search (YYZ-IST, IST-CDG, CDG-YYZ), and I had no problems getting options for all 3. And just to further emphasize the point, the random date I selected had no availability on the YYZ-IST TK flight, nor on any non-stop CDG-YYZ, so my final test itinerary ended up being YYZ-FRA-IST-CDG-YUL-YHZ-YYZ, which really pushes the limits of allowable mileage.

As another data point, I have YQB-YUL-IST-BCN booked for next summer, and have frequently seen YUL-IST-BRU offered by Aeroplan.ca, so I think either it's a glitch or your arrival/departure times on the connection didn't line up.
Twickenham is offline  
Old Oct 18, 2015, 9:50 am
  #103  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,784
Originally Posted by Twickenham
I'm not quite sure what was going on in your search, but I just ran the same search (YYZ-IST, IST-CDG, CDG-YYZ), and I had no problems getting options for all 3. And just to further emphasize the point, the random date I selected had no availability on the YYZ-IST TK flight, nor on any non-stop CDG-YYZ, so my final test itinerary ended up being YYZ-FRA-IST-CDG-YUL-YHZ-YYZ, which really pushes the limits of allowable mileage.

As another data point, I have YQB-YUL-IST-BCN booked for next summer, and have frequently seen YUL-IST-BRU offered by Aeroplan.ca, so I think either it's a glitch or your arrival/departure times on the connection didn't line up.
Pretty sure I've always seen YYZ-IST-BCN/MAD/NCE/BRU/AMS/PRG
and obviously the closer ones to IST like FCO/ATH

Just did dummy search one-way for next week
I see via IST options to BCN, BRU, PRG
No CDG (could be just bad luck/timing)

Anyway, I only use IST for my Mini-RTW and not Europe so never a big deal for me. In fact, YYZ-IST-TPE (2 nonstops) is an easy Eastbound option to TPE for me and IST-TPE is even now on 777 I believe
jerryhung is offline  
Old Oct 18, 2015, 11:58 am
  #104  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by Twickenham
I'm not quite sure what was going on in your search, but I just ran the same search (YYZ-IST, IST-CDG, CDG-YYZ), and I had no problems getting options for all 3. And just to further emphasize the point, the random date I selected had no availability on the YYZ-IST TK flight, nor on any non-stop CDG-YYZ, so my final test itinerary ended up being YYZ-FRA-IST-CDG-YUL-YHZ-YYZ, which really pushes the limits of allowable mileage.

As another data point, I have YQB-YUL-IST-BCN booked for next summer, and have frequently seen YUL-IST-BRU offered by Aeroplan.ca, so I think either it's a glitch or your arrival/departure times on the connection didn't line up.
I happily stand corrected. There certainly DO seem to be [NA Hub - IST - Europe 1 Hub] routings available.

Whether it is a really high MPM or some type of published routing exception, at least it works.

Thanks for the discussion.
gateguard0 is offline  
Old Oct 18, 2015, 12:06 pm
  #105  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by gateguard0
I tried unsuccessfully to find YYZ-IST-CDG routings in a one-way Aeroplan search.

I then used the multi-city search to force an IST connection -- that is, searching YYZ-IST on Day 1, IST-CDG on Day 2 (looking for < 24 hour connections), CDG-YYZ as a dummy return in the future just to get the multi-city search to validate. After selecting the YYZ-IST direct flight, any IST-CDG option with a connection time < 24 hours was greyed out. It only allowed connections > 24 hours, turning the award into Europe 2 with IST as the destination.

Point is that YYZ-IST-CDG does not appear to be a valid routing. For what it's worth, YUL-IST-CDG results are similar.

My guess would be that IST can be included in some [NA Non-Hub --> IST --> Europe 1 Non-Hub] routings, but most [NA Hub --> IST --> Europe 1 Hub] routings don't work anymore. I'd be happy to be wrong though...
As an FYI I have booked:

YYZ-YUL-ZRH (stop)
ZRH-FLR (stop)
(Open jaw)
CDG-IST-YUL-YYZ

which was a valid route. No idea what the MPM is. I would have liked IST-YYZ direct but no J availability yet.
mahoogalah is offline  

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