WEIGH IN: Leaving AC, Staying or ALREADY LEFT?
Oct 25, 2014, 7:21 pm
#151
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Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
Wow, I guess my post was a little too cryptic. It had nothing to do with travel policies. OP claimed that lowering the price of J seats would create "zero additional demand" for said seats. I assumed that such nonsense would come from govt employees, bureaucrats who generally have no clue as to how the marketplace works.
Oct 25, 2014, 8:14 pm
#152
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: AC Million Miler & long time SE; StarwoodPlat for 10+ yrs & lifetime Gold; Hilton Honours Diamond; IC Ambassador; AMEX Plat;Avis Presidents Club; Airmiles GOLD; and just about everything else!
Programs: aeroplan & 25+year loyalty
Posts: 3,822
Wow, I guess my post was a little too cryptic. It had nothing to do with travel policies. OP claimed that lowering the price of J seats would create "zero additional demand" for said seats. I assumed that such nonsense would come from govt employees, bureaucrats who generally have no clue as to how the marketplace works.
I often have seen cabinet ministers flying in Y like the late Jim Flaherty (but on short haul flights...he was making a point) but I also know that the long haul flights like YOW to YVR that the MPs would be able to upgrade (whether using e-ups or paid tickets is another question).
The only person I have ever seen with a 3MM membership, which means lifetime SE, was a Senator from Saskatchewan. I believe MPs and Senators are exempt from these travel rules for longer haul flights.
Oct 25, 2014, 8:26 pm
#153
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
Most employees of major corporations and govt rely on central booking agencies so you are right they do not have a clue. Most are not groomed to give a clue. However, Govt employees at least Federally are restricted at least domestically from flying in J.
I often have seen cabinet ministers flying in Y like the late Jim Flaherty (but on short haul flights...he was making a point) but I also know that the long haul flights like YOW to YVR that the MPs would be able to upgrade (whether using e-ups or paid tickets is another question).
The only person I have ever seen with a 3MM membership, which means lifetime SE, was a Senator from Saskatchewan. I believe MPs and Senators are exempt from these travel rules for longer haul flights.
I often have seen cabinet ministers flying in Y like the late Jim Flaherty (but on short haul flights...he was making a point) but I also know that the long haul flights like YOW to YVR that the MPs would be able to upgrade (whether using e-ups or paid tickets is another question).
The only person I have ever seen with a 3MM membership, which means lifetime SE, was a Senator from Saskatchewan. I believe MPs and Senators are exempt from these travel rules for longer haul flights.
Oct 25, 2014, 8:37 pm
#154
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Honors Diamond. Priority Club Platinum. Emerald Club Executive Elite
Posts: 446
SE and I'm leaving AC/AE
I've been giving this a lot of thought since receiving the email a few days ago.
I have a number of reasons for leaving. Some of which I will list here. None should be interpreted as the primary reason:
-Devolution of e-ups
-The bulk of my travel is trans-border. And at that, many destinations I fly to are not served by AC.
-A good reason to drop my CIBC Infinite Gold. I'll be searching out a card that works better for my needs. I'll change banks, if need be.
-Rouge. It's big and only getting bigger, while leg room diminishes.
-COST of flying AC v UA and other US carriers.
-I will still have UA lounge access, as all my trips with them would be considered international. The odd time I fly US domestic, I can purchase one-time lounge access if I choose.
I'll be SE in 2015, so I have just over a year to use up as many AE points as possible. (One can never have enough blenders, mixers and toasters!) I'll pony-up the money myself for E+ on UA until I earn status. Making Platinum won't be difficult, and if I choose the occasional 3-segment trips, 1KK isn't out of reach. I also make one or two INT'L personal trips per year. I always fly Z fares when I'm purchasing for myself. UA has decent enough savings in that department as well. Paid upgrades on UA are generally cheaper than AC. So AC will lose out on that as well.
I might still be found on one or two AC flights throughout the coming years, crediting MP. I may still even pay to upgrade, if offered. I belong to Corporate Awards with AC. Though the savings usually bring the price down, those prices are rarely, if ever, cheaper than UA. (assuming I'm traveling to a US AC-served destination)
AC is doing what they believe is in their best interests. I KNOW I'm moving towards what is in my best interests. Hello UA.
...and for what it's worth, I'm choosing UA only because they offer the most flights and destinations from YOW. DL has only two flights per day to Detroit. US(AA) has only 3 or 4 per day... PHL and CLT. WestJet (as of now) just doesn't have many, if any, of the necessary connections to where I need to be.
I have a number of reasons for leaving. Some of which I will list here. None should be interpreted as the primary reason:
-Devolution of e-ups
-The bulk of my travel is trans-border. And at that, many destinations I fly to are not served by AC.
-A good reason to drop my CIBC Infinite Gold. I'll be searching out a card that works better for my needs. I'll change banks, if need be.
-Rouge. It's big and only getting bigger, while leg room diminishes.
-COST of flying AC v UA and other US carriers.
-I will still have UA lounge access, as all my trips with them would be considered international. The odd time I fly US domestic, I can purchase one-time lounge access if I choose.
I'll be SE in 2015, so I have just over a year to use up as many AE points as possible. (One can never have enough blenders, mixers and toasters!) I'll pony-up the money myself for E+ on UA until I earn status. Making Platinum won't be difficult, and if I choose the occasional 3-segment trips, 1KK isn't out of reach. I also make one or two INT'L personal trips per year. I always fly Z fares when I'm purchasing for myself. UA has decent enough savings in that department as well. Paid upgrades on UA are generally cheaper than AC. So AC will lose out on that as well.
I might still be found on one or two AC flights throughout the coming years, crediting MP. I may still even pay to upgrade, if offered. I belong to Corporate Awards with AC. Though the savings usually bring the price down, those prices are rarely, if ever, cheaper than UA. (assuming I'm traveling to a US AC-served destination)
AC is doing what they believe is in their best interests. I KNOW I'm moving towards what is in my best interests. Hello UA.
...and for what it's worth, I'm choosing UA only because they offer the most flights and destinations from YOW. DL has only two flights per day to Detroit. US(AA) has only 3 or 4 per day... PHL and CLT. WestJet (as of now) just doesn't have many, if any, of the necessary connections to where I need to be.
Last edited by nowinyow; Oct 25, 2014 at 9:24 pm
Oct 25, 2014, 9:26 pm
#156
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
Leaving and kind of already left:
I've stopped going out of my way to fly AC when other airlines, usually Westjet, are cheaper or offer better times. This year, I've done the following on Westjet:
YEG-YVR-YYJ-YEG
YEG-YVR-YEG
YEG-YYC-YEG (2x)
YEG-YYZ-YEG
YEG-YQR-YEG
and did YEG-YYZ-CDG-FCO-CDG-YYZ-YEG on Westjet/Air France.
I'm at 37 AC segments, always making status on segments. I could have made E50K and *G if I stuck to AC but I'm over it. This year, I'm going to focus on my Westjet account and just pump money into that. I doubt I'll make P25K next year, but I honestly don't mind.
AC needs to realize that just as Westjet is creating a new FF program is not a good time to screw over mainly domestic FFs! Especially out west in YEG, YYC, YVR and YQR where Westjet is a very serious domestic competitor!
I've stopped going out of my way to fly AC when other airlines, usually Westjet, are cheaper or offer better times. This year, I've done the following on Westjet:
YEG-YVR-YYJ-YEG
YEG-YVR-YEG
YEG-YYC-YEG (2x)
YEG-YYZ-YEG
YEG-YQR-YEG
and did YEG-YYZ-CDG-FCO-CDG-YYZ-YEG on Westjet/Air France.
I'm at 37 AC segments, always making status on segments. I could have made E50K and *G if I stuck to AC but I'm over it. This year, I'm going to focus on my Westjet account and just pump money into that. I doubt I'll make P25K next year, but I honestly don't mind.
AC needs to realize that just as Westjet is creating a new FF program is not a good time to screw over mainly domestic FFs! Especially out west in YEG, YYC, YVR and YQR where Westjet is a very serious domestic competitor!
(if your travel is mainly to YYC/YEG then I can understand.)
Oct 25, 2014, 9:27 pm
#157
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
Most employees of major corporations and govt rely on central booking agencies so you are right they do not have a clue. Most are not groomed to give a clue. However, Govt employees at least Federally are restricted at least domestically from flying in J.
I often have seen cabinet ministers flying in Y like the late Jim Flaherty (but on short haul flights...he was making a point) but I also know that the long haul flights like YOW to YVR that the MPs would be able to upgrade (whether using e-ups or paid tickets is another question).
I often have seen cabinet ministers flying in Y like the late Jim Flaherty (but on short haul flights...he was making a point) but I also know that the long haul flights like YOW to YVR that the MPs would be able to upgrade (whether using e-ups or paid tickets is another question).
(I have done this to get cheaper tickets to YUL/YYZ in the past and fly flex a few years ago.)
Oct 26, 2014, 2:05 pm
#161
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: ACAlt,SPG,MR
Posts: 64
Altitude is less attractive, so now what?
Ok so I'm on record here as one who is :
1.) SE
2.) Mainly by segments (this year both but segments first)
3.) flying frequently on RapidAir flights and or no J cabin well under 500 mile flights (eastern Canada)
4.) frustrated and considering a change.
So let's get real. I have blindly given 99% of my business to AC. When I can't fly AC for one reason or another I try to fly UA. My only experiences outside of AC are
1.) A couple sun destination flights on Jet Blue when I was not flying much for a couple years - great price/great experience
2.) AE rewards on UA,LH F, LX,Thai,ANA,UA,Brussels J.
3.) A Westjet flight from Hamilton.
I fly primarily (80%) domestic, 15% US and 5% everywhere else.
What do the more experienced among us feel are the best options for someone in my situation?
Still tough without a lot of domestic competition...
1.) SE
2.) Mainly by segments (this year both but segments first)
3.) flying frequently on RapidAir flights and or no J cabin well under 500 mile flights (eastern Canada)
4.) frustrated and considering a change.
So let's get real. I have blindly given 99% of my business to AC. When I can't fly AC for one reason or another I try to fly UA. My only experiences outside of AC are
1.) A couple sun destination flights on Jet Blue when I was not flying much for a couple years - great price/great experience
2.) AE rewards on UA,LH F, LX,Thai,ANA,UA,Brussels J.
3.) A Westjet flight from Hamilton.
I fly primarily (80%) domestic, 15% US and 5% everywhere else.
What do the more experienced among us feel are the best options for someone in my situation?
Still tough without a lot of domestic competition...
Oct 26, 2014, 2:18 pm
#162
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: St. John's NL
Programs: WestJet Gold; E35K/*Silver
Posts: 561
Ultimately you have 2 choices. Stick with altitude at SE level with the lesser perks, but still consider the baggage, priority services and some upgrades worth a premium over other airlines.
Or consider the value proposition of the top tier programme gone. In which case mix things up. And go with the cheapest airlines for the route and day you want to travel. For SE's who need to travel a lot, it's a great time to get your finger in more than one pie.
WestJet have their new programme, am sure an SE like yourself could spend 6k a year to gain their perks but not switch entirely to them. Look at the American airlines. Maybe being lower tier on a few programmes will bring more benefits than top on one, especially a devalued one.
One thing amongst all this stuff that is being posted especially from SE's is "I'm leaving, it's over". For me, divesting oneself of AC's stranglehold should be liberating. The idea there are no options isn't wholly accurate.
Or consider the value proposition of the top tier programme gone. In which case mix things up. And go with the cheapest airlines for the route and day you want to travel. For SE's who need to travel a lot, it's a great time to get your finger in more than one pie.
WestJet have their new programme, am sure an SE like yourself could spend 6k a year to gain their perks but not switch entirely to them. Look at the American airlines. Maybe being lower tier on a few programmes will bring more benefits than top on one, especially a devalued one.
One thing amongst all this stuff that is being posted especially from SE's is "I'm leaving, it's over". For me, divesting oneself of AC's stranglehold should be liberating. The idea there are no options isn't wholly accurate.
Oct 26, 2014, 2:19 pm
#163
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: Non-status bottomfeeder
Posts: 827
Already left to whomever has best price.
Former 35-50k flyer. Now ~10k paid butt-in-seat miles per year.
Crediting to OZ for *A and BA for oneWorld.
Haven't paid for a premium class fare in years. All J flights have been awards (from credit card spend points).
Former 35-50k flyer. Now ~10k paid butt-in-seat miles per year.
Crediting to OZ for *A and BA for oneWorld.
Haven't paid for a premium class fare in years. All J flights have been awards (from credit card spend points).
Oct 26, 2014, 2:30 pm
#164
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
Ok so I'm on record here as one who is :
1.) SE
2.) Mainly by segments (this year both but segments first)
3.) flying frequently on RapidAir flights and or no J cabin well under 500 mile flights (eastern Canada)
4.) frustrated and considering a change.
So let's get real. I have blindly given 99% of my business to AC. When I can't fly AC for one reason or another I try to fly UA. My only experiences outside of AC are
1.) A couple sun destination flights on Jet Blue when I was not flying much for a couple years - great price/great experience
2.) AE rewards on UA,LH F, LX,Thai,ANA,UA,Brussels J.
3.) A Westjet flight from Hamilton.
I fly primarily (80%) domestic, 15% US and 5% everywhere else.
What do the more experienced among us feel are the best options for someone in my situation?
Still tough without a lot of domestic competition...
1.) SE
2.) Mainly by segments (this year both but segments first)
3.) flying frequently on RapidAir flights and or no J cabin well under 500 mile flights (eastern Canada)
4.) frustrated and considering a change.
So let's get real. I have blindly given 99% of my business to AC. When I can't fly AC for one reason or another I try to fly UA. My only experiences outside of AC are
1.) A couple sun destination flights on Jet Blue when I was not flying much for a couple years - great price/great experience
2.) AE rewards on UA,LH F, LX,Thai,ANA,UA,Brussels J.
3.) A Westjet flight from Hamilton.
I fly primarily (80%) domestic, 15% US and 5% everywhere else.
What do the more experienced among us feel are the best options for someone in my situation?
Still tough without a lot of domestic competition...
Here's the deal at the end of the day for domestic travel.
If you want you can fly WJ. Use WJ Plus fares - similar to Flex. Sit up front in 35"-40" pitch (which by the way is similar to preferred seating on AC). You'd get a free meal and booze (cold meal). Buy these until you get status with WJ, then you can drop your need to buy Plus fares.
Here's where it doesn't add up.
1) Priority services are the same. Although lowly E75K's like myself and below don't have to worry about zonal boarding as i'm sure SE's will board before us.
2) Food = bleh, same pig trough food
3) Booze = free on WJ. Paid on AC (if one buys WJ plus)
4) IFE = live TV vs EnRoute
5) Loss of lounge access eventually
6) You'd lose your 4 ish domestic upgrades a year
So what do you gain by switching?
1) Principle
2) You'd save quite a bit of $. If you care about this, you should switch. If not, you're still fundamentally better off at AC. AC knows this. So they can take stuff away if ultimately they inch out a tiny bit when it comes to value vs WJ.
Do your man parts feel like someone has a hand on it and is twisting? Mine do.
Oct 26, 2014, 2:36 pm
#165
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: ACAlt,SPG,MR
Posts: 64
Quote:
1) Priority services are the same. Although lowly E75K's like myself and below don't have to worry about zonal boarding as i'm sure SE's will board before us.
2) Food = bleh, same pig trough food
3) Booze = free on WJ. Paid on AC
4) IFE = live TV vs EnRoute
5) Loss of lounge access eventually
6) You'd lose your 4 ish domestic upgrades a year
So what do you gain by switching?
1) Principle
2) You'd save quite a bit of $. If you care about this, you should switch. If not, you're still fundamentally better off at AC. AC knows this. So they can take stuff away if ultimately they inch out a tiny bit when it comes to value vs WJ.
1) Priority services are the same. Although lowly E75K's like myself and below don't have to worry about zonal boarding as i'm sure SE's will board before us.
2) Food = bleh, same pig trough food
3) Booze = free on WJ. Paid on AC
4) IFE = live TV vs EnRoute
5) Loss of lounge access eventually
6) You'd lose your 4 ish domestic upgrades a year
So what do you gain by switching?
1) Principle
2) You'd save quite a bit of $. If you care about this, you should switch. If not, you're still fundamentally better off at AC. AC knows this. So they can take stuff away if ultimately they inch out a tiny bit when it comes to value vs WJ.
Porter have IFE? I am intrigued by train/island airport combo rather than driving/parking...
I will read up on what if any ff program they offer.
And how do rewards happen if at all with WS?