Originally Posted by BlondeBomber (Post 23032813)

A person who buys J class all the time, gets many of the benefits (concierge, bigger seat, lounge access, priority board etc.) and doesn't need status to get them.

Originally Posted by Clipper801 (Post 23033477)

Try to get the Concierge Agent to help you in YYZ if you are not SE?

You must be kidding. They will tell you to get lost and not to bother them, from a personal experience and even to the "extreme" of giving you the telephone no. and e-mail address of the Concierge at the next station for you to contact them yourself for assistance.

Originally Posted by Lllahim (Post 23031834)

My understanding of the UA spend program is that it is conditional on mileage achievement. I stand to be corrected on this: you still have to earn 100K miles or 100 segmants to qualify in addition to a spend of $10K. Spend without miles will not qualify for status. There is no chance that an Airline willl give you top-tier status for spending 25K on one return J fare to SYD. If that happens, I will spend $100K/a year for 4 different top tier programs. Where is my loyalty?

Originally Posted by Shareholder (Post 23033849)

Non-US resident accounts are exempt from the minimum spend requirement as these are also tied to the UA cc (except for 1K) and which is not available to members outside the USA.

And once more, let's not be coy about it, for 99% of those who fly, it is their employer (who can deduct higher cost tickets) who pays for the ticket not them. It is the company that has the loyalty based solely on the deal they cut with the airline. Around FT, a large number of elites are actually paying for their tickets out of after tax dollars with no hope of deducting from their taxes.

Originally Posted by BlondeBomber (Post 23032813)

"Loyalty = who spends the most. No? "

NO!

I think you confuse the purpose of loyalty programs with loyalty.

A person who buys J class all the time, gets many of the benefits (concierge, bigger seat, lounge access, priority board etc.) and doesn't need status to get them. Loyalty there must be encouraged through better product not status. They can take their business elsewhere and don't worry about status too much (I know there are always exceptions). Status doesn't matter-product does.

A person who buys Flex all the time and won't get those benefits unless they can achieve status. These persons are motivated to spend marginally more than they would normally spend or at least spend with one airline/alliance more than they would otherwise since they receive real or perceived benefits for doing so. This person can also take their business elsewhere but may be reluctant to do so if the value proposition is there. Status matters and both the pax and the airline benefit.

A large purpose of loyalty programs is to get those people in the second or similar scenarios continuing to buy into their system and hence more revenue for the airline. The individual annual spend may be the same or less than the person who buys J all the time but their motivations are quite different.

I am not opposed to spend as a criteria or as a way of determining status but to say $$$ = loyalty is not correct. It is much more complicated and the above scenarios are just a couple of ways of looking at it. Each of us has a unique reason why we want status (or don't care)--the airlines have to figure out a way to get more of us in their doors without breaking their bank. True bottomfeeders are likely rare and don't make a big difference positive or negative to the airlines. High spenders are also likely rare and could make a difference but may not be at all motivated by loyalty programs. The big question is how much of the status-seeking middle spenders can an airline capture with its status/loyalty program. Will be interesting to see how these spend/hybrid spend/BIS miles approaches play out for loyalty. I don't really think any of us know the answer but obviously some airlines feel they are giving away too much with just BIS mile-based programs.

Originally Posted by Shareholder (Post 23030719)

So OP's inability to understand what UA -- and DL before it -- has done negates the whole premise of this thread.

Originally Posted by Clipper801 (Post 23033477)

Try to get the Concierge Agent to help you in YYZ if you are not SE?

You must be kidding. They will tell you to get lost and not to bother them, from a personal experience when flying on an International Business Class ticket and they would even go to the "extreme" of giving you the telephone no. and e-mail address of the Concierge at the next station for you to contact them yourself for assistance.

Originally Posted by superangrypenguin (Post 23033934)

Don't disagree with you about the company paying for it, but most companies give flyers the option to fly more than 1 airline. Then if the flyer chooses to fly consistently with 1 airline, does that not count towards loyalty?

Originally Posted by canadiancow (Post 23036137)

That sounds like you're flying YYZ-YVR-HKG or something and expecting concierge access in YYZ.

From the description on the website, it is not clear if you should be entitled to the benefit in that case.

Originally Posted by rankourabu (Post 23031696)

Yes. In this model, it certainly would be.

You dont think that frequency of purchases and not buying elsewhere are also part of loyalty?

Originally Posted by BrotherBranwell (Post 23037248)

Rev J passengers are definitely not rewarded by Altitude - pay 500+% of a Flex fare but only get 150% miles!!!!

Originally Posted by flybit (Post 23037332)

really AC should not give any miles or at least reduce loyalty for those who fly in Canada, also flyers who fly from trapped airport that only have AC service.
Really those flyers have very little choice, so why reward them?;)

How long till AC starts this cutback? :confused:

Originally Posted by hydrogen (Post 23038230)

If AC went to 5 miles per dollar (more for SE/E/P), wouldn't most people on domestic flights be getting more miles under than under the current structure?

Originally Posted by Clipper801 (Post 23029495)

It's overdue.
AC has consistently ignored moderate flyers like me who generally buy discount business class fare. I verily believe that my annual total spent has been more than some SE's especially when I read boasting posts here on how to achieve SE for spending $5,000 or less! One TPAC in business costs more than that!