AC Presence on FT
#1471
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,501
#1472
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SEMM
Posts: 1,379
#1473
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan
Posts: 1,748
There maybe even more of you. 4 to 1 or 5 to 1 or more. But if the basically business rule is 80/20, where 20% produce 80% of revenue(and profit), you booking tango or flying another airline will not effect them over all. You become a pax easy to replace, someone buying on price.
#1474
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,396
Having said that, here is where we differ: I think you remain in the dark if all you get from the AC reps is marketing and obfuscation. (Take a look at the R0P9 IKK thread and it is pretty clear that is all they are willing to say.) So there is no "sharing of the light."
#1475
Join Date: May 2014
Programs: AC Elite 50K
Posts: 367
Also they go quiet typically when the company goes into blackouts. IE when information is being sequestered. It is year end... You won't hear from Ben Smith until after earnings are released. You may hear from the other Ben before then but there will be a lot of no comment.
#1476
Flying Blue Director
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
Haven't gone anywhere (nor, I can see, has the rumour mill...), I was just on vacation. Plus, like Sean Peever said, I do have a day job (with which I'm trying to catch up)
I sent a note to tcook so hopefully the sticky will be open again soon.
I sent a note to tcook so hopefully the sticky will be open again soon.
#1477
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,501
I respect your opinion too...
Having said that, here is where we differ: I think you remain in the dark if all you get from the AC reps is marketing and obfuscation. (Take a look at the R0P9 IKK thread and it is pretty clear that is all they are willing to say.) So there is no "sharing of the light."
Having said that, here is where we differ: I think you remain in the dark if all you get from the AC reps is marketing and obfuscation. (Take a look at the R0P9 IKK thread and it is pretty clear that is all they are willing to say.) So there is no "sharing of the light."
I believe they said that its the revenue department that decides what is offered. And that they would check to see if there was an error.
Its an answer. Its not the answer anybody wants to hear, but its better than speculation. Like I said, the programme will progress (evolve or whatever word you chose to use) despite their presence here.
Would you rather the truth, or just assume whatever you like?
Come to think of it: forget what you want... If you don't like the answer they give, you'll say its "marketing and obfuscation" or other things like that. As I have been told by people to do, you can choose to ignore or block their posts. I want to see the light, even if I don't like its hue. Ignorance was never anything I strove for...
#1478
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
#1479
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: YOW
Posts: 1,024
Hope you had a good vacation.
#1481
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,446
If we could also save this thread for discussion about AC's presence on FT and not wider hard or soft product debates which are better held on other threads.
tcook052
AC Forum Moderator
#1482
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,396
I followed the thread.
I believe they said that its the revenue department that decides what is offered. And that they would check to see if there was an error.
Its an answer. Its not the answer anybody wants to hear, but its better than speculation. Like I said, the programme will progress (evolve or whatever word you chose to use) despite their presence here.
Would you rather the truth, or just assume whatever you like?
Come to think of it: forget what you want... If you don't like the answer they give, you'll say its "marketing and obfuscation" or other things like that. As I have been told by people to do, you can choose to ignore or block their posts. I want to see the light, even if I don't like its hue. Ignorance was never anything I strove for...
I believe they said that its the revenue department that decides what is offered. And that they would check to see if there was an error.
Its an answer. Its not the answer anybody wants to hear, but its better than speculation. Like I said, the programme will progress (evolve or whatever word you chose to use) despite their presence here.
Would you rather the truth, or just assume whatever you like?
Come to think of it: forget what you want... If you don't like the answer they give, you'll say its "marketing and obfuscation" or other things like that. As I have been told by people to do, you can choose to ignore or block their posts. I want to see the light, even if I don't like its hue. Ignorance was never anything I strove for...
The phrase "certain routes and dates" has been consistently used as a generic disclaimer for years about IKK and R space in general. It is marketing and obfuscation, it does not reflect the widespread change in R (and therefore IKK) availability, and is thus not an answer. It is not a case of me disliking the answer, it is a case of not getting an answer. The cave remains just as dark as it was before. We are no wiser on the how or why than before. In fact, if it was up to AC, we would continue to think that IKK has the same level of availability as last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. Which just isn't true. And blaming it on RM is not an answer either. I don't care if it is loyalty or RM or whoever--the fact remains that IKK has been drastically cut to almost zero on certain routes.
Their answers are non answers sometimes. I am delighted to have them here. I don't expect to like the truthful answers they provide all the time. But I do expect honesty, not obfuscation. And I do expect to be able to debate or question when reality doesn't match with their answers.
#1483
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,501
There was no offer to check if it was an error. And yes he said it was RM. He said: "I'm sorry if you have issues finding space with IKK, certain routes on certain dates may have limited space due to availability constraints or because RM forecasts the cabin going out with a high percentage of paid J, but as others have indicated there are certainly routes and dates with available R space. To my knowledge there is still no other FFP that offers the same level of availability to its top tier elites, and we use the J inventory restrictions on international flights as a way to try and ensure we can maintain it."
The phrase "certain routes and dates" has been consistently used as a generic disclaimer for years about IKK and R space in general. It is marketing and obfuscation, it does not reflect the widespread change in R (and therefore IKK) availability, and is thus not an answer. It is not a case of me disliking the answer, it is a case of not getting an answer. The cave remains just as dark as it was before. We are no wiser on the how or why than before. In fact, if it was up to AC, we would continue to think that IKK has the same level of availability as last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. Which just isn't true. And blaming it on RM is not an answer either. I don't care if it is loyalty or RM or whoever--the fact remains that IKK has been drastically cut to almost zero on certain routes.
Their answers are non answers sometimes. I am delighted to have them here. I don't expect to like the truthful answers they provide all the time. But I do expect honesty, not obfuscation. And I do expect to be able to debate or question when reality doesn't match with their answers.
The phrase "certain routes and dates" has been consistently used as a generic disclaimer for years about IKK and R space in general. It is marketing and obfuscation, it does not reflect the widespread change in R (and therefore IKK) availability, and is thus not an answer. It is not a case of me disliking the answer, it is a case of not getting an answer. The cave remains just as dark as it was before. We are no wiser on the how or why than before. In fact, if it was up to AC, we would continue to think that IKK has the same level of availability as last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. Which just isn't true. And blaming it on RM is not an answer either. I don't care if it is loyalty or RM or whoever--the fact remains that IKK has been drastically cut to almost zero on certain routes.
Their answers are non answers sometimes. I am delighted to have them here. I don't expect to like the truthful answers they provide all the time. But I do expect honesty, not obfuscation. And I do expect to be able to debate or question when reality doesn't match with their answers.
You choose to assume that AC is restricting availability to IKK. One might also assume that there are more and more SEs taking advantage of a stagnant pool of IKK availability. Or that more SEs are lurking here and found out how to use IKK and are gobbling it up all the good seats.
Or, I would assume that when Ben says "because RM forecasts the cabin going out with a high percentage of paid J" it means that they prefer selling J than offering it for IKK. Sounds crystal clear to me. And a sound business practice.
Like I said, you may not like the answer, but would you rather not have it?
#1484
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,313
My interpretation is that he will look into this. You may (and probably will) interpret it differently. Its still information from AC
You choose to assume that AC is restricting availability to IKK. One might also assume that there are more and more SEs taking advantage of a stagnant pool of IKK availability. Or that more SEs are lurking here and found out how to use IKK and are gobbling it up all the good seats.
Or, I would assume that when Ben says "because RM forecasts the cabin going out with a high percentage of paid J" it means that they prefer selling J than offering it for IKK. Sounds crystal clear to me. And a sound business practice.
Like I said, you may not like the answer, but would you rather not have it?
You choose to assume that AC is restricting availability to IKK. One might also assume that there are more and more SEs taking advantage of a stagnant pool of IKK availability. Or that more SEs are lurking here and found out how to use IKK and are gobbling it up all the good seats.
Or, I would assume that when Ben says "because RM forecasts the cabin going out with a high percentage of paid J" it means that they prefer selling J than offering it for IKK. Sounds crystal clear to me. And a sound business practice.
Like I said, you may not like the answer, but would you rather not have it?
I'm having a tough time finding international J IKK at all on various routes.
North American is fine. Y is fine (but I'm not flying Y across an ocean). But J seems to be a problem.
#1485
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,501
My main point in todays discussion, since it appears I was not clear: the fact that AC persons are answering questions will not change the current state of and future state of the AC FF programme. But I still want to hear their input, even if I don't like what they have to say. I would rather make my decisions based on their actual words, then the supposition and conjecture of a bunch of FFers who are basing their posts on rumour or hearsay.
I was referring to the presence of AC in this forum. I honestly do not have a clue about IKK. I am not an SE and probably will never be. I couldn't tell you exactly what IKK is. The example of the IKK thread was brought by ridefar, and I was rebutting his interpretation of Ben's words on that forum. He brought that part up not me.