AC Presence on FT

Old Jan 6, 15, 9:23 am
  #1471  
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Originally Posted by Sean Peever View Post
I'm pretty sure with the events on the East Coast right now Ben's more than busy and when he has time to return they will open it.

We do have to remember that Ben has a day job :P.
Agreed. Not sure why they closed it though.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 9:41 am
  #1472  
 
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post
..
It appears that, on FT, we prefer to live in the dark because we cannot share the light from the candle.
You really are the metaphor master - I love it!! ^^

Perhaps that (MetaphorMaster) could be the next handle you give yourself on FT
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Old Jan 6, 15, 9:42 am
  #1473  
 
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Originally Posted by Wpgjetse View Post
There maybe even more of you. 4 to 1 or 5 to 1 or more. But if the basically business rule is 80/20, where 20% produce 80% of revenue(and profit), you booking tango or flying another airline will not effect them over all. You become a pax easy to replace, someone buying on price.
The key word is "become". I was not someone buying on price - they turned me into someone buying on price. This strikes me as particularly ill-conceived managerial practice.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 11:09 am
  #1474  
 
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post
I understand your opinion, and I respect your right to express it.

It appears that, on FT, we prefer to live in the dark because we cannot share the light from the candle.
I respect your opinion too...

Having said that, here is where we differ: I think you remain in the dark if all you get from the AC reps is marketing and obfuscation. (Take a look at the R0P9 IKK thread and it is pretty clear that is all they are willing to say.) So there is no "sharing of the light."
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Old Jan 6, 15, 11:11 am
  #1475  
 
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post
Agreed. Not sure why they closed it though.
Also they go quiet typically when the company goes into blackouts. IE when information is being sequestered. It is year end... You won't hear from Ben Smith until after earnings are released. You may hear from the other Ben before then but there will be a lot of no comment.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 11:31 am
  #1476  
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Haven't gone anywhere (nor, I can see, has the rumour mill...), I was just on vacation. Plus, like Sean Peever said, I do have a day job (with which I'm trying to catch up)

I sent a note to tcook so hopefully the sticky will be open again soon.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 11:33 am
  #1477  
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Originally Posted by ridefar View Post
I respect your opinion too...

Having said that, here is where we differ: I think you remain in the dark if all you get from the AC reps is marketing and obfuscation. (Take a look at the R0P9 IKK thread and it is pretty clear that is all they are willing to say.) So there is no "sharing of the light."
I followed the thread.

I believe they said that its the revenue department that decides what is offered. And that they would check to see if there was an error.

Its an answer. Its not the answer anybody wants to hear, but its better than speculation. Like I said, the programme will progress (evolve or whatever word you chose to use) despite their presence here.

Would you rather the truth, or just assume whatever you like?

Come to think of it: forget what you want... If you don't like the answer they give, you'll say its "marketing and obfuscation" or other things like that. As I have been told by people to do, you can choose to ignore or block their posts. I want to see the light, even if I don't like its hue. Ignorance was never anything I strove for...
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Old Jan 6, 15, 11:35 am
  #1478  
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Haven't gone anywhere (nor, I can see, has the rumour mill...), I was just on vacation. Plus, like Sean Peever said, I do have a day job (with which I'm trying to catch up)

I sent a note to tcook so hopefully the sticky will be open again soon.
Happy New Year.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 11:35 am
  #1479  
 
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Haven't gone anywhere (nor, I can see, has the rumour mill...), I was just on vacation. Plus, like Sean Peever said, I do have a day job (with which I'm trying to catch up)

I sent a note to tcook so hopefully the sticky will be open again soon.
Wait! you mean you have a life outside of FT... sheesh



Hope you had a good vacation.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 11:36 am
  #1480  
 
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Haven't gone anywhere (nor, I can see, has the rumour mill...), I was just on vacation...
Welcome back to the madhouse Hope you had a good break.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 1:12 pm
  #1481  
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
I sent a note to tcook so hopefully the sticky will be open again soon.
Reopened and welcome back.

If we could also save this thread for discussion about AC's presence on FT and not wider hard or soft product debates which are better held on other threads.

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Old Jan 6, 15, 2:16 pm
  #1482  
 
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post
I followed the thread.

I believe they said that its the revenue department that decides what is offered. And that they would check to see if there was an error.

Its an answer. Its not the answer anybody wants to hear, but its better than speculation. Like I said, the programme will progress (evolve or whatever word you chose to use) despite their presence here.

Would you rather the truth, or just assume whatever you like?

Come to think of it: forget what you want... If you don't like the answer they give, you'll say its "marketing and obfuscation" or other things like that. As I have been told by people to do, you can choose to ignore or block their posts. I want to see the light, even if I don't like its hue. Ignorance was never anything I strove for...
There was no offer to check if it was an error. And yes he said it was RM. He said: "I'm sorry if you have issues finding space with IKK, certain routes on certain dates may have limited space due to availability constraints or because RM forecasts the cabin going out with a high percentage of paid J, but as others have indicated there are certainly routes and dates with available R space. To my knowledge there is still no other FFP that offers the same level of availability to its top tier elites, and we use the J inventory restrictions on international flights as a way to try and ensure we can maintain it."

The phrase "certain routes and dates" has been consistently used as a generic disclaimer for years about IKK and R space in general. It is marketing and obfuscation, it does not reflect the widespread change in R (and therefore IKK) availability, and is thus not an answer. It is not a case of me disliking the answer, it is a case of not getting an answer. The cave remains just as dark as it was before. We are no wiser on the how or why than before. In fact, if it was up to AC, we would continue to think that IKK has the same level of availability as last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. Which just isn't true. And blaming it on RM is not an answer either. I don't care if it is loyalty or RM or whoever--the fact remains that IKK has been drastically cut to almost zero on certain routes.

Their answers are non answers sometimes. I am delighted to have them here. I don't expect to like the truthful answers they provide all the time. But I do expect honesty, not obfuscation. And I do expect to be able to debate or question when reality doesn't match with their answers.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 3:10 pm
  #1483  
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Originally Posted by ridefar View Post
There was no offer to check if it was an error. And yes he said it was RM. He said: "I'm sorry if you have issues finding space with IKK, certain routes on certain dates may have limited space due to availability constraints or because RM forecasts the cabin going out with a high percentage of paid J, but as others have indicated there are certainly routes and dates with available R space. To my knowledge there is still no other FFP that offers the same level of availability to its top tier elites, and we use the J inventory restrictions on international flights as a way to try and ensure we can maintain it."

The phrase "certain routes and dates" has been consistently used as a generic disclaimer for years about IKK and R space in general. It is marketing and obfuscation, it does not reflect the widespread change in R (and therefore IKK) availability, and is thus not an answer. It is not a case of me disliking the answer, it is a case of not getting an answer. The cave remains just as dark as it was before. We are no wiser on the how or why than before. In fact, if it was up to AC, we would continue to think that IKK has the same level of availability as last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. Which just isn't true. And blaming it on RM is not an answer either. I don't care if it is loyalty or RM or whoever--the fact remains that IKK has been drastically cut to almost zero on certain routes.

Their answers are non answers sometimes. I am delighted to have them here. I don't expect to like the truthful answers they provide all the time. But I do expect honesty, not obfuscation. And I do expect to be able to debate or question when reality doesn't match with their answers.
From Ben L's post on the IKK thread:

Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Thank you for the feedback. ... and I will do what I can to ensure RM is being fair with their inventory controls....
My interpretation is that he will look into this. You may (and probably will) interpret it differently. Its still information from AC

You choose to assume that AC is restricting availability to IKK. One might also assume that there are more and more SEs taking advantage of a stagnant pool of IKK availability. Or that more SEs are lurking here and found out how to use IKK and are gobbling it up all the good seats.

Or, I would assume that when Ben says "because RM forecasts the cabin going out with a high percentage of paid J" it means that they prefer selling J than offering it for IKK. Sounds crystal clear to me. And a sound business practice.

Like I said, you may not like the answer, but would you rather not have it?
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Old Jan 6, 15, 3:51 pm
  #1484  
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post
My interpretation is that he will look into this. You may (and probably will) interpret it differently. Its still information from AC

You choose to assume that AC is restricting availability to IKK. One might also assume that there are more and more SEs taking advantage of a stagnant pool of IKK availability. Or that more SEs are lurking here and found out how to use IKK and are gobbling it up all the good seats.

Or, I would assume that when Ben says "because RM forecasts the cabin going out with a high percentage of paid J" it means that they prefer selling J than offering it for IKK. Sounds crystal clear to me. And a sound business practice.

Like I said, you may not like the answer, but would you rather not have it?
I think what a lot of people here are saying is, would we rather not have what?

I'm having a tough time finding international J IKK at all on various routes.

North American is fine. Y is fine (but I'm not flying Y across an ocean). But J seems to be a problem.
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Old Jan 6, 15, 5:08 pm
  #1485  
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
I think what a lot of people here are saying is, would we rather not have what?

I'm having a tough time finding international J IKK at all on various routes.

North American is fine. Y is fine (but I'm not flying Y across an ocean). But J seems to be a problem.
Apologies kind bovine sir. I was referring to the input of the AC crew here on the AC forum.

My main point in todays discussion, since it appears I was not clear: the fact that AC persons are answering questions will not change the current state of and future state of the AC FF programme. But I still want to hear their input, even if I don't like what they have to say. I would rather make my decisions based on their actual words, then the supposition and conjecture of a bunch of FFers who are basing their posts on rumour or hearsay.

I was referring to the presence of AC in this forum. I honestly do not have a clue about IKK. I am not an SE and probably will never be. I couldn't tell you exactly what IKK is. The example of the IKK thread was brought by ridefar, and I was rebutting his interpretation of Ben's words on that forum. He brought that part up not me.
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