AC Presence on FT
Jan 1, 2015, 3:12 pm
#1381
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West
Posts: 3,357
- Something meant to deceive or mistakenly accepted as true.
- To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
- To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.
That is what businesses do, not just AC. Small prints are helpful to them from possible prosecutions.
Jan 1, 2015, 3:26 pm
#1382
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 202
I would love to see a higher level of discourse on at least one thread here. That would involve respect for the opinions expressed and respect for the people involved. That would also involve discussing the issues honestly rather than locking into an opinion and declaring it to be fact, and then insulting the poor unfortunate souls who might dare to disagree.
Debate involves listening to other points of view, considering the validity of those points, and even (gasp!) being willing to modify your views based on the input from others.
The AC folks who post here use their own names, for the most part. They are of course limited in what they can say, as is anyone working for a large corporation. More often than not, they are swarmed and attacked by a bunch of masked people. It should not be a surprise that the AC folks pull back from time to time; who needs the abuse?
They might not be able to give all of the answers that we want, but they can certainly help us understand more about what is driving AC decisions, and give hints about what is to come. They add value. When they are driven away from here, it's effectively censorship by bullies.
If you honestly hate AC, surely to God you can find another way to get where you need to go. If not WestJet or United or BA or Porter, there is always Greyhound. The constant one-note hatred of AC that is expressed here is a waste of time, and in my humble opinion, it cheapens the FT experience for the majority.
Debate involves listening to other points of view, considering the validity of those points, and even (gasp!) being willing to modify your views based on the input from others.
The AC folks who post here use their own names, for the most part. They are of course limited in what they can say, as is anyone working for a large corporation. More often than not, they are swarmed and attacked by a bunch of masked people. It should not be a surprise that the AC folks pull back from time to time; who needs the abuse?
They might not be able to give all of the answers that we want, but they can certainly help us understand more about what is driving AC decisions, and give hints about what is to come. They add value. When they are driven away from here, it's effectively censorship by bullies.
If you honestly hate AC, surely to God you can find another way to get where you need to go. If not WestJet or United or BA or Porter, there is always Greyhound. The constant one-note hatred of AC that is expressed here is a waste of time, and in my humble opinion, it cheapens the FT experience for the majority.
Jan 1, 2015, 4:45 pm
#1383
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
Jan 1, 2015, 4:47 pm
#1384
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West
Posts: 3,357
It is irrelevant what posters or AC customers are saying here but it is almost a crime to post deceiving spins by AC reps using real names or not if such postings occur.
Jan 1, 2015, 5:18 pm
#1385
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE100K MM
Posts: 903
Jan 1, 2015, 5:30 pm
#1386
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,803
Textbook case of a PR disaster. Textbook case of how not to run an amateurish operation out of the executive suite instead of leaving it to the pros.
But eh, this is AC, it seems heads never roll. Just to at how long lived Lise has been.
Jan 2, 2015, 1:04 am
#1387
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,514
I was merely pointing out that an environment such as this, when one can speak somewhat anonymously, is prone to exaggeration, boasting and half truths.
You had stated that people here don't lie. I don't believe that for a second.
Jan 2, 2015, 1:07 am
#1388
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,514
Apologies for my ineptitude, but I've re-read your posting several times, and I am not sure what you are trying to say. Could you elaborate or re-phrase it for me?
Jan 2, 2015, 1:46 am
#1389
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,514
"almost a crime" is a bit too much. But showing to our face that they see their customers as being stupid surely cannot do them much good.
Textbook case of a PR disaster. Textbook case of how not to run an amateurish operation out of the executive suite instead of leaving it to the pros.
Textbook case of a PR disaster. Textbook case of how not to run an amateurish operation out of the executive suite instead of leaving it to the pros.
Since this site is primarily frequent flyers, the proper PR message should be something like: "You are all very valuable to us here at airline XX, and we understand that you spend a large amount of money with us and we are doing the utmost to offer you the best offering given current market we are forced to make cuts , blah, blah, blah, blah blah."
The truth is more like, "25 years ago frequent flyers and travel agents were the bulk of airline xx's business and we catered to those groups accordingly. Now in 2015 those markets are now the 5th* and 6th* most important markets, so our business plan has changed accordingly. We now spend more time and effort catering to the more important revenue streams and can no longer justify offering the perks we used to." Travel agencies have had their commissions reduced to insanely small levels, to the point where most of the charge service fees to book airline tickets, and frequent flyers perks are being diminished.
Should an AC rep say the former, they'll get lambasted and accused of lying or patronizing. Should they say the latter they are crucified for denigrating FFers loyalty.
I believe no one here wants to hear either version, so the only role the AC people can give is to answer specific 'small' issue questions or correct people when they are making false assumptions on specific topics.
* I made up these numbers to make the point, but I'll bet I'm close to the real values.
Jan 2, 2015, 3:22 am
#1390
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,919
Les Baker, vice president of Sabre-owned Prism, whose software measures corporate client market share for airlines, offers two salient points;
1. "The corporate traveler is essential for the success of most airlines,"
2. "On average, 12 percent of an airline's travelers fly on a contracted business fare."
He also stated that a 2013 Prism study analyzing airline financial reports found that corporate contracts were a key contributor to an airline's average profit.
25 years ago, corporate contracts were a rarity. Also rare were the restrictions on fare classes and class of service allowed under corporate travel allowances. Today, the companies who generate those lucrative corporate travel contracts closely monitor costs. In many companies, travellers don't have the option of picking the air carrier. I know my multinational employer operates that way. Many large companies funnel their travel through a designated travel portal which has further eroded FF relationships. My 2 previous employers did, and my current employer does it for our US regional offices.
The above sums up in large part why, the individual FF is less important to an airline's bottom line today, than 10 years ago. When the bean counters in the finance department at the corporate travel accounts are working through costs, they don't care if the employees get FF points or upgrades.
Aeroplan today is no longer a FF program, but is in fact a 'rewards" program. This is why AC does not lose sleep over the complaints from disgruntled FFers. Unfortunately, consumers in Canada have yet to understand the changes that occurred in the market.
1. "The corporate traveler is essential for the success of most airlines,"
2. "On average, 12 percent of an airline's travelers fly on a contracted business fare."
He also stated that a 2013 Prism study analyzing airline financial reports found that corporate contracts were a key contributor to an airline's average profit.
25 years ago, corporate contracts were a rarity. Also rare were the restrictions on fare classes and class of service allowed under corporate travel allowances. Today, the companies who generate those lucrative corporate travel contracts closely monitor costs. In many companies, travellers don't have the option of picking the air carrier. I know my multinational employer operates that way. Many large companies funnel their travel through a designated travel portal which has further eroded FF relationships. My 2 previous employers did, and my current employer does it for our US regional offices.
The above sums up in large part why, the individual FF is less important to an airline's bottom line today, than 10 years ago. When the bean counters in the finance department at the corporate travel accounts are working through costs, they don't care if the employees get FF points or upgrades.
Aeroplan today is no longer a FF program, but is in fact a 'rewards" program. This is why AC does not lose sleep over the complaints from disgruntled FFers. Unfortunately, consumers in Canada have yet to understand the changes that occurred in the market.
Jan 2, 2015, 7:19 am
#1391
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: YYT/YYZ
Programs: AC*SE, AC*MM, SPG Gold, FPC Plat, HHonors Diamond, PC Plat Elite, R&C Club 5C, Hyatt GP
Posts: 2,201
2. "On average, 12 percent of an airline's travelers fly on a contracted business fare."
He also stated that a 2013 Prism study analyzing airline financial reports found that corporate contracts were a key contributor to an airline's average profit.
This is why AC does not lose sleep over the complaints from disgruntled FFers.
He also stated that a 2013 Prism study analyzing airline financial reports found that corporate contracts were a key contributor to an airline's average profit.
This is why AC does not lose sleep over the complaints from disgruntled FFers.
And if corporate travel policies reduce point earning and upgrade opportunities for their staff, why does AC have to act to reduce them further?
Jan 2, 2015, 8:24 am
#1392
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE 1MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,397
Even so, you still don't come remotely close to the Three Amigos. You at least are make an honest attempt to explain your position clearly and reasonable and disclosing where you don't have complete data. I have yet to see anybody at AC come remotely close to approaching that sort of attitude with their communication. As somebody with a great deal of experience at the ground level with corporate communications via social media to customers, there is no good or acceptable explanation for their behavior. If anybody in our company tried what they did, they would be reprimanded and banned from social media participation at a minimum, more likely fired.
Jan 2, 2015, 8:33 am
#1393
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ontario, CAN
Posts: 5,813
Love how the few affected truth seekers here beat their chests as if they were gifted w/ Superhero powers and are here to cut through the fog for the rest of us. With the help of their Superhero glasses they can spot a devaluation AC tried to market as an enhancement. Their Superhero measuring devices can confirm to the rest of us simpletons that Rouge pitch is indeed less than Westjet. Their 50-digit calculators can confirm that Westjet's price on the specific date and route they happen to be looking at was cheaper than Rouge.
While the rest of us dummies just stumble around making our individual travel cost/benefit decisions each time we book a flight. We might be simple ... but we're sharp enough to factor in the the LONG known fact Elite perks have been sliding for some time. We take that into account selecting carrier/fare knowing future status perks are unknown.
These Basement Truth Seeking Superheros here to save the travelling public get carried away when they attack AC reps and parse every word an AC rep posts looking for some fight when they're fully aware the rep has 1 hand tied behind his back.
Naturally, the Rep wants nothing to do with a no-win fight and goes home or comes out to play less ... And we're left with Superheros whining providing nothing of value. The only power these Superheros lack is the power to actually do something to change their circumstance rather than talk about it
You should try giving them the silent treatment. They'll be apologizing within months I'm sure.
While the rest of us dummies just stumble around making our individual travel cost/benefit decisions each time we book a flight. We might be simple ... but we're sharp enough to factor in the the LONG known fact Elite perks have been sliding for some time. We take that into account selecting carrier/fare knowing future status perks are unknown.
These Basement Truth Seeking Superheros here to save the travelling public get carried away when they attack AC reps and parse every word an AC rep posts looking for some fight when they're fully aware the rep has 1 hand tied behind his back.
Naturally, the Rep wants nothing to do with a no-win fight and goes home or comes out to play less ... And we're left with Superheros whining providing nothing of value. The only power these Superheros lack is the power to actually do something to change their circumstance rather than talk about it
You should try giving them the silent treatment. They'll be apologizing within months I'm sure.
Last edited by tcook052; Jan 2, 2015 at 9:06 am
Jan 2, 2015, 9:07 am
#1394
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ottawa
Programs: Cessna TTx Self-Fly
Posts: 2,982
Love how the few affected truth seekers here beat their chests as if they were gifted w/ Superhero powers and are here to cut through the fog for the rest of us. With the help of their Superhero glasses they can spot a devaluation AC tried to market as an enhancement. Their Superhero measuring devices can confirm to the rest of us simpletons that Rouge pitch is indeed less than Westjet. Their 50-digit calculators can confirm that Westjet's price on the specific date and route they happen to be looking at was cheaper than Rouge.
While the rest of us dummies just stumble around making our individual travel cost/benefit decisions each time we book a flight. We might be simple ... but we're sharp enough to factor in the the LONG known fact Elite perks have been sliding for some time. We take that into account selecting carrier/fare knowing future status perks are unknown.
These Basement Truth Seeking Superheros here to save the travelling public get carried away when they attack AC reps and parse every word an AC rep posts looking for some fight when they're fully aware the rep has 1 hand tied behind his back.
Naturally, the Rep wants nothing to do with a no-win fight and goes home or comes out to play less ... And we're left with Superheros whining providing nothing of value. The only power these Superheros lack is the power to actually do something to change their circumstance rather than talk about it
While the rest of us dummies just stumble around making our individual travel cost/benefit decisions each time we book a flight. We might be simple ... but we're sharp enough to factor in the the LONG known fact Elite perks have been sliding for some time. We take that into account selecting carrier/fare knowing future status perks are unknown.
These Basement Truth Seeking Superheros here to save the travelling public get carried away when they attack AC reps and parse every word an AC rep posts looking for some fight when they're fully aware the rep has 1 hand tied behind his back.
Naturally, the Rep wants nothing to do with a no-win fight and goes home or comes out to play less ... And we're left with Superheros whining providing nothing of value. The only power these Superheros lack is the power to actually do something to change their circumstance rather than talk about it
Instead of pontificating about how things have gone wrong from your (often snidely stated) perspective perhaps you could start your own forum whereby you can invite AC to join you and you can keep out the people you consider riff-raff or Superheros. This way you can be happy and AC can be happy. Perhaps, you know, you can actually do something to change your circumstance rather than talk about it. Or are you just happy complaining in the same manner that you accuse others of?
Last edited by OttawaMark; Jan 2, 2015 at 9:17 am
Jan 2, 2015, 9:24 am
#1395
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
It's clear you're unhappy with what's been going on regarding some forum members and AC on an open and public forum. You keep beating your own chest while complaining about it on a regular basis.
Instead of pontificating about how things have gone wrong from your (often snidely stated) perspective perhaps you could start your own forum whereby you can invite AC to join you and you can keep out the people you consider riff-raff or Superheros. This way you can be happy and AC can be happy. Perhaps, you know, you can actually do something to change your circumstance rather than talk about it. Or are you just happy complaining in the same manner that you accuse others of?
Instead of pontificating about how things have gone wrong from your (often snidely stated) perspective perhaps you could start your own forum whereby you can invite AC to join you and you can keep out the people you consider riff-raff or Superheros. This way you can be happy and AC can be happy. Perhaps, you know, you can actually do something to change your circumstance rather than talk about it. Or are you just happy complaining in the same manner that you accuse others of?