AC Presence on FT

Old May 15, 14, 10:11 am
  #91  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: YVR
Programs: Starwood Plat
Posts: 60
Mortar fire

Bienvenue a board, Ben. (The only French I know I learned on AC flights.)

Good to see AC attempting to get closer to its customers. As I learned when (briefly) attached to an infantry unit (long story), when advancing on the opposing line, it's always safer to run *towards* the mortar fire because eventually you get close enough that they stop using mortars. (You might have some other problems to deal with at that point, but at least it's not mortars.)
Napstolean is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 10:11 am
  #92  
formerly with Air Canada
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,752
Originally Posted by YYZFlyboy View Post
Okay don't weasel out of your words:

"Nothing has been announced because nothing has been decided"

One day later they announce. So your saying the reconfig was decided yesterday afternoon (after your post) and announced today unbeknownst to people "in the know" at AC?

Anyhow sorry but I've been conditioned after years of bs to be extremely cynical of AC and it's motives. You will need to earn my trust if you officially represent AC. For me, at least, your starting off in a big hole that you'll have to climb out of. I guess we'll see how this new FT venture develops or if it will be the usual hamfisted AC effort.

I see the above albeit minor wording error as a perfect representation of AC - one hand not knowing what the other is doing/saying. IMHO this situation permeates AC itself and it's relationship with Aeroplan and even *A.
I'm sorry you feel that way.

I'm saying the reconfig still isn't 100% decided. From the Press Release this morning:

"Moreover, in order to improve the economics of our standard Boeing 777 long-haul fleet and to provide customers with a consistent product to our new Boeing 787 Dreamliners, we are planning on converting 12 Boeing 777-300ER and six Boeing 777-200LR aircraft into a more competitive configuration, adding a much desired premium economy cabin and refurbishing the International Business Class cabin to the new Boeing 787 state-of-the-art standards. The reconfiguration is designed to both lower unit costs and to allow us to compete more effectively with a harmonized product offering across our flagship international fleet. The reconfiguration project is planned to start in late 2015 and be completed in the second half of 2016."

Note that it doesn't give the specifics that were asked for, and to be honest I wasn't made aware of the timeline myself until the announcement. I'm not intimately involved in the project, and if you'll read my original post it says that as soon as I'm made aware of a plan that can be publicly shared I would post here. Also note that there is no way FlyerTalk will have access to commercially sensitive information like this before we publicly release it to investors.

There are a million and one initiatives underway at this company, and not all of us touch every one.
Ben Lipsey is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 10:14 am
  #93  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
First, I'm sorry you had to go through an experience like that. It's not our intention for our best customers to have experiences like that when travelling. While in this case you were certainly in the right to bring in the cavalry (and again I'm sorry it had to come to that), imagine a situation where that might not be the case. If you had indeed not been at the top of the list for whatever reason, you would have gone through the whole charade for naught. You know the basics of how the system works, so you felt confident enough to challenge the GA and bring in the Concierge agent. But what if you didn't know how the system worked? What if we published the system and you misinterpreted? What if it changed? Again, in your case, as an SE on a high fare, you're right in that you hold a very good chance getting your upgrade, but if the system becomes published there are those who may not be as intuitive as you and misinterpret the rules, such that they would be raising alarm bells for no reason whatsoever, ultimately just causing a harried GA and potentially a delayed departure.
First, thanks for your participation here.

Re: upgrade priority publication, I just don't buy the business risk argument, particularly when your bigger cousins are transparent and seem to be doing just fine: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...e/default.aspx Publishing the priority in this way makes everyone - both employees and customers - far more comfortable in these instances. People expect policies to change with time, but always knowing where you stand at any one time is what's more important.

FWIW, I have not flown international on AC in some time now, in part because of frustrations with the nebulous nature of the upgrade scheme. Instead I book on other carriers (usually a Z fare equivalent). This is from a now 5 year SE who previously never would have dreamed of being on anything other than AC metal, and who would have paid a substantial premium to do so.
ACB777 is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 10:17 am
  #94  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto vicinity
Programs: UA 1K, AC MM E50, SPG P100, Marriott Plat, Fairmont Plat
Posts: 12,770
Hi Ben, congrats on your new position. I'm glad AC recognizes the importance of having a presence on FT even though it seems like you kind of backed into the job, and they agreed after the fact that it was a good idea.

I hope you won't get discouraged by the bullies because they are a minority. Even though the AC love fest is over for many of us, there is no reason not to be polite.

Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Fair, but this goes back to my earlier example. If you see you are #1 and then someone else checks in or there is a rev pax on SBY or a courtesy upgrade given due to VDB or..or..or...when you don't get the upgrade, there is a chance you will be more irritated because you had already imagined yourself to be sitting in J. There are so many extraneous factors at the airport that can affect things like that.
If you were breaking new ground here, I'd say you were justified in being concerned, but UA has been doing this for years, and I'm not aware of any fist fights breaking out over an upgrade. If it were a problem, don't you think they would have done away with this system a long time ago?

I can see my name on the upgrade waitlist and sometimes it moves down as more people check in. C'est la vie. But at least now, my expectations are set accordingly. I really don't understand why AC thinks it's so important to keep the upgrade list a big secret.
margarita girl is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 10:27 am
  #95  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
But what if you didn't know how the system worked? What if we published the system and you misinterpreted? What if it changed? Again, in your case, as an SE on a high fare, you're right in that you hold a very good chance getting your upgrade, but if the system becomes published there are those who may not be as intuitive as you and misinterpret the rules, such that they would be raising alarm bells for no reason whatsoever, ultimately just causing a harried GA and potentially a delayed departure.
If the rules changed, point them to new rules. Problem solved.

If they misinterpreted the rules, show they where in the rules they are wrong. Problem solved.

Based on this post, not posting rules also causes problems without clear ways to solve them.

Upgrades go into the decision making process. As you said Ben, the people on this forum are a small percentage of all the ff. Without the info on this forum, the upgrade process can only be learned via trial and error and that can be very expensive. Not exactly consumer friendly.

Last edited by psycosis; May 15, 14 at 10:32 am
psycosis is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 10:28 am
  #96  
formerly with Air Canada
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,752
Originally Posted by keitherson View Post
Will their new presence on Flyertalk change the fact that it took them over FIVE months to get back to a status match request, only to ask for more info, say they can only match to 50K, and then have gone back to ignoring my response completely?

No thanks, I'll continue to give the American carriers my business, even if it means inconvenient connections. At least elite status there actually means something.

Oh and welcome, Ben.
Sorry you were having problems. If you are still interested, send me a PM.
Ben Lipsey is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 10:28 am
  #97  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Thanks for the Memories !!!
Posts: 9,650
As we all know how things can get out of hand on here, good luck !!! Congratulations on your position with AC !
Q Shoe Guy is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 10:42 am
  #98  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: YUL
Programs: E 75 K
Posts: 772
As a moderate flyer (in many senses of the word), let me add my voice to those that have welcomed you, and apologize for those who can't wait to jump all over you.
It's clear from AC's new direction that they have begun to understand better the yield model necessary to make the airline profitable, albeit at the expense of our comfort once on board. Wouldn't it also be inspiring if an insider lurking on the board could hammer away at the old-school nonsense ("privacy concerns") that would clear the way for some positive comments from your most important pax? Ben, dare to be bold!
willflyforfood is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 10:56 am
  #99  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
Gosh I feel bad for Ben. Welcome Ben, we're not all bullies...
superangrypenguin is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 11:22 am
  #100  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: AC Altitude E75K (*G), NEXUS
Posts: 4,328
I don't expect to be in the position of having cavalry to call in, and would probably buy whatever pretext I was given for not getting an upgrade, but the rationale that some people would know the "old" rules and go all DYKWIA at the GA is a weak rationale. We have this marvellous technology called an Internet, and the CURRENT PREVAILING RULE could easily be posted on that system for resolving any such disputes or justifying the resolution as it was reached by the responsible parties. Of course, that would require that AC figure out how to work the Internets and not, say, still have web pages posted that give obsolete mileage earning values for flight passes on rouge, and such.
flyquiet is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 11:35 am
  #101  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC-SE MM,Fairmont Plat, Ritz Platinum , Hertz Platinum, Quintessentially
Posts: 1,246
Originally Posted by TemboOne View Post
Something we should all be considerate about here is that Ben Lipsey and ACYYZ/SD both represent Air Canada in different capacities and may well be privy to much that cannot be revealed or disclosed at a given time or as soon as we might like, if ever.

We do learn a lot of helpful info from them here on FT that we might not otherwise have access to. Let's not push for more that can be revealed.
Very Well Said.....be polite and be considerate.
Silvercity is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 11:47 am
  #102  
Formerly known as newbie elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: YUL
Programs: Free Agent
Posts: 2,158
Wow some people are overly sensitive with the words "bully" and "whining"...

All I see is some perfectly civil back and forth, requests for clarification and welcome messages. One of the big problems in todays society IMO: speaking your mind is discouraged, don't make any waves, you may disturb people.

Discussion is a 2 way street, not lightning bolts of truth from the AC PR machine (not talking about Ben at all here) He is an adult, if he can't answer he won't.

Anyhoo, any plans for dealing with the horrendous wait times when we call your airline?

Last edited by Admiral Ackbar; May 15, 14 at 11:54 am
Admiral Ackbar is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 12:21 pm
  #103  
formerly with Air Canada
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,752
Originally Posted by doubleflier View Post
Probably because Air Canada doesn't place much value on Vancouver as compared to Toronto/Montreal.

Look at the hub strategy of Toronto, and what Air Canada has done to Vancouver over the years:

- Beijing and Shanghai frequencies dropped (and finally increased about a year ago back to daily), while star alliance partners moved in to fill the void and add additional frequencies.
- ANA doing Haneda from Vancouver
- Launch of the 777HD on long haul routes from Vancouver - Hong Kong and London
- No more Osaka or Nagoya from Vancouver
- Continuous fluctuation of transborder service out of Vancouver - no more Miami, Boston, Chicago (years ago), San Diego status always changing, and now California all Rouge.
- How much capacity does United have out of Vancouver to Denver, Chicago, California, etc. compared to Air Canada? And, did TED ever fly to Vancouver?

Specifically with the transborder routes, some routes certainly could make sense for Rouge, but I guess that Air Canada is content to send a good portion of their business travel over to United and other carriers.
AC doesn't place an emotional 'value' on an airport or city. We don't 'hate' YVR and we don't 'love' YYZ or YUL. I obviously can't disclose why we decided to add/cut capacity to certain markets, but suffice it to say that it was for competitive reasons - i.e. we saw more potential elseware.

Some of our partners with whom we have a marketing/codeshare/alliance partnership, such as UA, will use their metal on some routes while we will fly other routes with our metal. It's not that we don't see the market value in an individual station, but rather that we see other markets better serving our hub. Look at UA - where do they fly? SFO, DEN, IAH, LAX. With perhaps the exception of LAX, those are all hubs of UA. We are not ignoring YVR; I assure you, if we see potential we will most certainly take advantage of it.

In fact, that's why we launched rouge. It was done to serve markets that may not have been financially sustainable on mainline, and there are some exciting new ones in the works x/YVR This also allows us to refocus our mainline fleet on serving other routes we didn't have the capacity to serve before. Also, YVRLHR and YVRHKG recently a saw a huge boost in capacity with the addition of the 77P. While some of you may prefer the classic 77W configuration, you cannot deny that the additional capacity is addressing the potential that is there. It also allows us greater flexibility, as those aircraft are less expensive for us to operative given the incremental seats.
Ben Lipsey is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 12:25 pm
  #104  
formerly with Air Canada
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,752
Originally Posted by psycosis View Post
If the rules changed, point them to new rules. Problem solved.

If they misinterpreted the rules, show they where in the rules they are wrong. Problem solved.

Based on this post, not posting rules also causes problems without clear ways to solve them.

Upgrades go into the decision making process. As you said Ben, the people on this forum are a small percentage of all the ff. Without the info on this forum, the upgrade process can only be learned via trial and error and that can be very expensive. Not exactly consumer friendly.
You assume all travellers are rational.
Ben Lipsey is offline  
Old May 15, 14, 12:45 pm
  #105  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: ACSEMM, WY Gold
Posts: 184
Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
You assume all travellers are rational.
Brilliant... that actually made me LOL
Binflyin is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: