AC Presence on FT

Old May 15, 14, 7:50 am
  #76  
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Ben;

Can you give us the B-788 schedule for the week of May 26th on the days that it is not operating YYZ-ZRH-YYZ? I see that on Thurs May 29th it is not flying to ZRH and some other days the following week.
I looked at the YYZ-YHZ-YYZ but can see nothing confirmed with the B-788 as previously mentioned?

Thank you.

Last edited by B788; May 15, 14 at 8:31 am
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Old May 15, 14, 8:27 am
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Originally Posted by B788 View Post
Ben;

Can you give us the B-788 schedule for next week on the days that it is not operating YYZ-ZRH-YYZ? I see that on Wed May 21 it is not flying to ZRH and some other days the following week.
I looked at the YYZ-YHZ-YYZ but can see nothing confirmed with the B-788 as previously mentioned?

Thank you.
The 788 service isn't actually scheduled to start the ZRH run until May 25th.
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Old May 15, 14, 8:27 am
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Originally Posted by rehoult

I'm certain the group here could give you a top 10 list of questions. If you'd be able to answer them, or just acknowledge them and note that at this time AC is not comfortable (or whatever PR approved wording you'd like) answering them that would be nice. Even just knowing that someone is taking the questions to a person who could give/approve an answer would go a long, long way in the forum.

3) What's the plan for the 777 refurb? Can we expect to see PE installed more widely or new Y seats? What's the timeline? When is an announcement expected?

=Ben Lipsey;22865061

I hear you, and that's one of the reasons I'm here. I want to make sure that you guys know we do indeed hear what you are saying, but that doesn't mean we are always at liberty to give answers. I'm happy to help shed some light where I can, and if I can't I still want you to know that you've been heard.

Regarding your questions,

3) Nothing has been announced because nothing has been decided. Obviously there are some things which are commercially sensitive which I cannot post on a public forum, but I assure you that as soon as I am made aware of any plan (that can be publicly shared) I will let you guys know.
Bolding mine: Fail #1 - the very next day AC announces refurb of 777 in 2015 to some kind of HD configuration. Nice.
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Old May 15, 14, 9:02 am
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Tractor Boy View Post
Thanks for at least providing some feedback - it is far more than we normally get from AC and is appreciated. However, I'm not sure the answer you give holds up.

First, being transparent wouldn't stop you changing things in the future if you wish. FFers currently know the rules for Lat fares, vs Flex in regard to changes, cancellations etc. This doesn't stop AC changing those rules if you want. The same would go for upgrades.

More importantly you currently have a system for upgrades that definitely does generate ill will and anger from FFers on a daily basis now. How could openness, transparency and honesty make that worse?
Point taken, but consider that the segment of the FF population that actively hangs about on here probably hovers around 1%. Even if you are active and are on here every day, there are thousands of others who are not. So if we were to publish the upgrade scheme, and if that managed to somehow integrate itself into the minds of all of our customers, that is the list by which they would expect to be upgraded.

Now, I'm sure many of you have met the DYKWIA types, indeed there are numerous threads on here illustrating their behaviour in their natural habitat; if you then take it one step further and assume the DYKWIA knows the 'old' upgrade system but hasn't yet familiarised him- or herself with the 'new' one -- well I'm sure you can imagine the scene that would unfold at the boarding gate. (Of course later to be transposed on here and met with a series of )
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Old May 15, 14, 9:13 am
  #80  
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Originally Posted by YYZFlyboy View Post
Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey
3) Nothing has been announced because nothing has been decided. Obviously there are some things which are commercially sensitive which I cannot post on a public forum, but I assure you that as soon as I am made aware of any plan (that can be publicly shared) I will let you guys know.
Bolding mine: Fail #1 - the very next day AC announces refurb of 777 in 2015 to some kind of HD configuration. Nice.
Bolding mine.
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Old May 15, 14, 9:30 am
  #81  
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Originally Posted by B788 View Post
Ben;

Can you give us the B-788 schedule for the week of May 26th on the days that it is not operating YYZ-ZRH-YYZ? I see that on Thurs May 29th it is not flying to ZRH and some other days the following week.
I looked at the YYZ-YHZ-YYZ but can see nothing confirmed with the B-788 as previously mentioned?

Thank you.
I see that for 29MAY it is scheduled to do YHZ runs again - 616/635/604/615 - before back to 878. Subject to change, of course
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Old May 15, 14, 9:36 am
  #82  
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Originally Posted by winnipegrev View Post
Fully agreed. Frankly it doesn't matter who else is on an upgrade list, why not be able to log into the mobile app with AE number and it show just your wait list number, nothing else? I don't even need the first 3 letters of anyone's name but my own.

.... though of course we would need a functioning Android app for my suggestion to work.


Lots of ways to make it happen if they really wanted to.
Fair, but this goes back to my earlier example. If you see you are #1 and then someone else checks in or there is a rev pax on SBY or a courtesy upgrade given due to VDB or..or..or...when you don't get the upgrade, there is a chance you will be more irritated because you had already imagined yourself to be sitting in J. There are so many extraneous factors at the airport that can affect things like that.
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Old May 15, 14, 9:41 am
  #83  
 
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Point taken, but consider that the segment of the FF population that actively hangs about on here probably hovers around 1%. Even if you are active and are on here every day, there are thousands of others who are not. So if we were to publish the upgrade scheme, and if that managed to somehow integrate itself into the minds of all of our customers, that is the list by which they would expect to be upgraded.

Now, I'm sure many of you have met the DYKWIA types, indeed there are numerous threads on here illustrating their behaviour in their natural habitat; if you then take it one step further and assume the DYKWIA knows the 'old' upgrade system but hasn't yet familiarised him- or herself with the 'new' one -- well I'm sure you can imagine the scene that would unfold at the boarding gate. (Of course later to be transposed on here and met with a series of )
Long time lurker here.. but this response made me say something. Are you really trying to justify not posting the rules because people would then except the rules to be followed?

AC/AP have rule changes all the time. Every year there are changes that effect all ff, but they are posted and if people complain, they can be referred to the post. The scene at the boarding gate would be much easier for anyone when the agent can say, goto aircanada.com for the details as opposed to, that is just the way it is.
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Old May 15, 14, 9:43 am
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Point taken, but consider that the segment of the FF population that actively hangs about on here probably hovers around 1%. Even if you are active and are on here every day, there are thousands of others who are not. So if we were to publish the upgrade scheme, and if that managed to somehow integrate itself into the minds of all of our customers, that is the list by which they would expect to be upgraded.

Now, I'm sure many of you have met the DYKWIA types, indeed there are numerous threads on here illustrating their behaviour in their natural habitat; if you then take it one step further and assume the DYKWIA knows the 'old' upgrade system but hasn't yet familiarised him- or herself with the 'new' one -- well I'm sure you can imagine the scene that would unfold at the boarding gate. (Of course later to be transposed on here and met with a series of )
Another story that was reported on FT: A bunch of Super Elites missed an international upgrade, because lower status members from PE were upgraded first.

But we have no idea if that's how it's supposed to be. If PE were actually more expensive than Flex, it might make sense, but it's often cheaper than Flex and even Tango. Denying an upgrade to a SE on a $4000 fare while giving it to an E50K on a $1000 fare makes sense for no one.

But we can't do anything if we're ever in that situation, because we have no evidence that it was processed wrong. If we at least had a general idea of how it worked (You mentioned status and fare class, but what does that mean? SE in V gets it over E50K in O? Or is it like UA where the "instant upgrade" fares have priority, and then lower fares?), we could at least be more informed at the gate when shenanigans inevitably arise.
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Old May 15, 14, 9:48 am
  #85  
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Originally Posted by psycosis View Post
Long time lurker here.. but this response made me say something. Are you really trying to justify not posting the rules because people would then except the rules to be followed?

AC/AP have rule changes all the time. Every year there are changes that effect all ff, but they are posted and if people complain, they can be referred to the post. The scene at the boarding gate would be much easier for anyone when the agent can say, goto aircanada.com for the details as opposed to, that is just the way it is.
What I'm saying is people would expect the rules to be followed in their favour. Not everybody is going to understand the intricacies of a system (which is quite complicated, believe me) as well as those on here might, and that could lead to a misinterpretation of the rules.
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Old May 15, 14, 9:53 am
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Will their new presence on Flyertalk change the fact that it took them over FIVE months to get back to a status match request, only to ask for more info, say they can only match to 50K, and then have gone back to ignoring my response completely?

No thanks, I'll continue to give the American carriers my business, even if it means inconvenient connections. At least elite status there actually means something.

Oh and welcome, Ben.
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Old May 15, 14, 9:54 am
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Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
Bolding mine.
Okay don't weasel out of your words:

"Nothing has been announced because nothing has been decided"

One day later they announce. So your saying the reconfig was decided yesterday afternoon (after your post) and announced today unbeknownst to people "in the know" at AC?

Anyhow sorry but I've been conditioned after years of bs to be extremely cynical of AC and it's motives. You will need to earn my trust if you officially represent AC. For me, at least, your starting off in a big hole that you'll have to climb out of. I guess we'll see how this new FT venture develops or if it will be the usual hamfisted AC effort.

I see the above albeit minor wording error as a perfect representation of AC - one hand not knowing what the other is doing/saying. IMHO this situation permeates AC itself and it's relationship with Aeroplan and even *A.
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Old May 15, 14, 9:57 am
  #88  
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Originally Posted by canadiancow View Post
Thank you very much for that.

I'd like to provide an example of why some kind of transparency - whether it's a public upgrade list, or just a publicly disclosed algorithm - would be good.

I was waitlisted for a YUL-YYZ flight on an M fare, as a Super Elite. So certainly not bottom of any reasonable list.

I asked the gate agent about it, and he said he hadn't processed upgrades, but he'd call out names. A bunch of names were later called out, but they weren't all for upgrades. After he stopped calling names, I went up and asked again. "Oh, Mister Johnson?", as he starts to hand over a boarding pass. "No, I'm cow". "Oh, you didn't get it."

But I saw "E35K" on the boarding pass. The discussion got a little intense. The GA said "Maybe he had a full fare ticket", "He was number 1", etc. I ended up calling the concierge, and after she conferred with the GA, the answer was "the system screwed up, you should have been first, and it's too late to fix it now, because it would delay the flight". That wasted the time of myself, the GA, and the concierge, and left a really bitter taste in my mouth about buying a flight pass.

My strategy now is to go pester the check-in agent, MLL agent, or gate agent if I'm waitlisted, ensuring they know I'm a Super Elite, waitlisted, and if the system is saying something else, they should let me know so I can get the concierge involved. This is a giant waste of time for them and me, but it seems to be necessary. (Note: I have not done this yet, because that was the last time an upgrade of mine went to the gate).

Instead, if I could see that I'm #1 on the list, I could just sit down and wait, knowing I'm going to get it. Or if I know how the algorithm is supposed to work, I would at least feel better about making statements like "I should be at the top of the list".

I've missed three upgrades this year. One of them, I completely agree with. Another one was very annoying, but that situation has been rectified such that it can never happen again. But this one described above was not a pleasant experience.

So I'm not expecting you to change your mind from my post, but it would be nice if you could communicate to the right people that the current upgrade system simply does not always work, and leaves high status passengers on high fare tickets feeling cheated.
First, I'm sorry you had to go through an experience like that. It's not our intention for our best customers to have experiences like that when travelling. While in this case you were certainly in the right to bring in the cavalry (and again I'm sorry it had to come to that), imagine a situation where that might not be the case. If you had indeed not been at the top of the list for whatever reason, you would have gone through the whole charade for naught. You know the basics of how the system works, so you felt confident enough to challenge the GA and bring in the Concierge agent. But what if you didn't know how the system worked? What if we published the system and you misinterpreted? What if it changed? Again, in your case, as an SE on a high fare, you're right in that you hold a very good chance getting your upgrade, but if the system becomes published there are those who may not be as intuitive as you and misinterpret the rules, such that they would be raising alarm bells for no reason whatsoever, ultimately just causing a harried GA and potentially a delayed departure.
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Old May 15, 14, 10:08 am
  #89  
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Originally Posted by YYZFlyboy View Post
Okay don't weasel out of your words:

"Nothing has been announced because nothing has been decided"

One day later they announce. So your saying the reconfig was decided yesterday afternoon (after your post) and announced today unbeknownst to people "in the know" at AC?

Anyhow sorry but I've been conditioned after years of bs to be extremely cynical of AC and it's motives. You will need to earn my trust if you officially represent AC. For me, at least, your starting off in a big hole that you'll have to climb out of. I guess we'll see how this new FT venture develops or if it will be the usual hamfisted AC effort.

I see the above albeit minor wording error as a perfect representation of AC - one hand not knowing what the other is doing/saying. IMHO this situation permeates AC itself and it's relationship with Aeroplan and even *A.
Oh come on. What do you expect him to say about unannounced information? "We've made a decision, but I can't tell you yet." ???

Ben, I think you're just going to have to start using "No comment" more

We're a harsh bunch.

Edit: There was an earnings release today, right? Which means employees were legally obligated to STFU about pretty much everything for the past while. That probably gave Ben two options:
1. Not post anything on FT, anywhere
2. Deny everything that hasn't been announced

He did the latter, which is still much more useful to everyone.

Originally Posted by Ben Lipsey View Post
First, I'm sorry you had to go through an experience like that. It's not our intention for our best customers to have experiences like that when travelling. While in this case you were certainly in the right to bring in the cavalry (and again I'm sorry it had to come to that), imagine a situation where that might not be the case. If you had indeed not been at the top of the list for whatever reason, you would have gone through the whole charade for naught. You know the basics of how the system works, so you felt confident enough to challenge the GA and bring in the Concierge agent. But what if you didn't know how the system worked? What if we published the system and you misinterpreted? What if it changed? Again, in your case, as an SE on a high fare, you're right in that you hold a very good chance getting your upgrade, but if the system becomes published there are those who may not be as intuitive as you and misinterpret the rules, such that they would be raising alarm bells for no reason whatsoever, ultimately just causing a harried GA and potentially a delayed departure.
I appreciate the response. If it's actually as complicated as you say (and I don't doubt it), I can see the problem. You'd have 10 customers who understand how it works, 10,000 who think they understand how it works, and everyone else would be confused

And I understand about the delays. The main reason I let it drop was that I didn't want an upgrade on a 1 hour flight to risk delaying that flight. And the GA was nice about it. He gave me a whole exit row on a plane that was far from empty.

A published list would still be useful though. As was mentioned by others, there are ways around privacy implications. It doesn't need to say "canadiancow". It can say "c. cow", "cc", or something similar. That would allow any odd situations (like mine) to be investigated far in advance, and before the list is processed, in case something is wrong.

I imagine there would be other problems, since there are multiple lists (at the very least, standby and upgrades). 5 seats open, #1 on upgrade list, but if there are 5 people on standby who have priority (do they have priority?), I could see how that might be annoying to not get it.

Anyway, I've stopped playing the eUp game for the most part. Latitude flight passes and Z fares, unless I'm flying somewhere that neither of those make sense.

Thanks again for all the responses. We may not always like what you're saying, but we really appreciate that you're taking the time to say it.

P.S. You guys should run another Earn Your Wings
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Old May 15, 14, 10:10 am
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Exclamation We need to be be considerate . . . . . !

Something we should all be considerate about here is that Ben Lipsey and ACYYZ/SD both represent Air Canada in different capacities and may well be privy to much that cannot be revealed or disclosed at a given time or as soon as we might like, if ever.

We do learn a lot of helpful info from them here on FT that we might not otherwise have access to. Let's not push for more that can be revealed.
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