AC Presence on FT
May 15, 2014, 8:04 pm
#181
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
You might be aware we've had a very tough time in the WCanada-California market ever since we merged with CP. We've had to drop YEG-LAX YYC-SFO YVR-SAN and significantly reduce capacity on YYC/YVR-LAX and YVR-SFO. Current market fares are not high enough to support mainline operations. In addition the inability to profitably expand YVR-WUSA services makes it very difficult for us to invest in YVR-Asia/Pacific services without the necessary feed network. These routes do not fit the typical profile of the majority of routes we plan to operate as rouge however there does exist a very unique market environment that necessitated this change.
May 15, 2014, 8:06 pm
#182
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
May 15, 2014, 8:07 pm
#183
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
One more note of appreciation to both Ben's for the involvement on FT - it's very very welcome.
To Ben Smith, while (we) have your attention ... is there anything you can say re: the display of the upgrade list? I did read & understand Ben Lipsey's response (that you are not prepared to disclose the upgrade priority rules, and that you are constrained by Canadian privacy rules re: disclosure of the list).
I'm only abstractly interested in what the underlying rules are ... we think we have an idea now, I'm sure we're wrong but close, and I think that will evolve on both sides but also remain the same.
However, it would be hugely valuable to me (and from comments here, to many others) to see what the upgrade list looks like, at the airport. I really value and appreciate what UA show's to their top tier ... and it's so frustrating when flying on my "home" airline not to have any idea at all re: the likelihood of my upgrade. It affects everything from my mental state to how much pasta I eat in the lounge prior to boarding.
Even if you won't disclose the rules & reasons why the order is the way it is, please consider showing the wait list at the gate. (And no, I don't buy the privacy excuse - even with strict Canadian privacy rules there are a hundred ways to get around that ... opt in, display 3 digits of the aeroplan number, display the checking number, etc).
I'll be at the 787 event on Tuesday, so I'm planning to ask you again in person
so I'm just giving you a chance to respond here first (or at least plan an answer for when I ask
Anyway, thanks again to both of you for your participation, it's much appreciated.
To Ben Smith, while (we) have your attention ... is there anything you can say re: the display of the upgrade list? I did read & understand Ben Lipsey's response (that you are not prepared to disclose the upgrade priority rules, and that you are constrained by Canadian privacy rules re: disclosure of the list).
I'm only abstractly interested in what the underlying rules are ... we think we have an idea now, I'm sure we're wrong but close, and I think that will evolve on both sides but also remain the same.
However, it would be hugely valuable to me (and from comments here, to many others) to see what the upgrade list looks like, at the airport. I really value and appreciate what UA show's to their top tier ... and it's so frustrating when flying on my "home" airline not to have any idea at all re: the likelihood of my upgrade. It affects everything from my mental state to how much pasta I eat in the lounge prior to boarding.
Even if you won't disclose the rules & reasons why the order is the way it is, please consider showing the wait list at the gate. (And no, I don't buy the privacy excuse - even with strict Canadian privacy rules there are a hundred ways to get around that ... opt in, display 3 digits of the aeroplan number, display the checking number, etc).
I'll be at the 787 event on Tuesday, so I'm planning to ask you again in person
so I'm just giving you a chance to respond here first (or at least plan an answer for when I ask Anyway, thanks again to both of you for your participation, it's much appreciated.
May 15, 2014, 8:08 pm
#185
Join Date: May 2014
Programs: AC Elite 50K
Posts: 367
Another question - Any plans fixing the group booking system - Its horribly broken. It used to be you called in on the phone (I've been telling AC small business/a Manager at Corp Rewards this for 18 months) and waited for an hour, which was tolerable when booking 30 tickets as we often do as part of an educational program we frequently run. AC got 100% of our business under this system. The new system has us send an email for a 48 hour response - which is a fair timeline (which is never ever ever ever met in my experience), and what comes back is most often incorrect and not what was described in the email. Both social media and corporate rewards have prodded groups on this - nobody has ever bothered to call from groups despite my offer to walk them through the issues - The result is we're left to book the fares one at a time... And AC only gets 80% of the business instead of the usual 100%.
What I have suggested to both - and Ill suggest now, is something similar to what Copa does - individual reps with individual emails who cc the backup rep on all communications so that you're dealing with the same person. And after the initial contact you get a phone number for that person. I never call our contact at Copa, I don't need to because we can resolve it in the emails. But at AC I get to deal with a new person every time, and they don't know the how or the why of the booking. Its frustrating, and it cost Air Canada 100K with our little organization last year alone. I can't help but think there are others.
What I have suggested to both - and Ill suggest now, is something similar to what Copa does - individual reps with individual emails who cc the backup rep on all communications so that you're dealing with the same person. And after the initial contact you get a phone number for that person. I never call our contact at Copa, I don't need to because we can resolve it in the emails. But at AC I get to deal with a new person every time, and they don't know the how or the why of the booking. Its frustrating, and it cost Air Canada 100K with our little organization last year alone. I can't help but think there are others.
May 15, 2014, 8:14 pm
#186
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: ACSEMM, WY Gold
Posts: 184
We've recently been advised by Boeing that 788 acft #2 and #3 delivery dates have slipped by a few weeks therefore various schedule adjustments have been made for the month of July. YYZ-HND will launch as planned but with a 349 seat 77W with the route switching to a 788 later in the summer. There will be official ceremonies at both ends as well as unique offerings on board.
Just wondering if you will be doing anything official or if the unique offerings will begin with YHZ / ZRH or are these just shakeout runs?
May 15, 2014, 8:15 pm
#187
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Programs: SPG LT Plat, Hilton G,Priorty Club G, AC E
Posts: 2,979
Ben are passengers who do not have seat assignments...
....get loaded on the system from the front of the plane first instead of from the back first?
As most of us who have to fly Y lots, I often have the middle seat beside me occupied by someone who had did not have a seat assignment (yes I ask).
Logic is that anyone with E or SE status sitting in Y is going to be sitting as close to the front of the aircraft (or taking advantage of bulk head or EE seats) as possible. Yet on a flight this week YYZ-YWG the back had plenty of open seats but myself and another E 50 had someone stuck in between us.
This seems like a simple software fix, and would endure AC to me if just once that middle seat wasn't occupied.
As most of us who have to fly Y lots, I often have the middle seat beside me occupied by someone who had did not have a seat assignment (yes I ask).
Logic is that anyone with E or SE status sitting in Y is going to be sitting as close to the front of the aircraft (or taking advantage of bulk head or EE seats) as possible. Yet on a flight this week YYZ-YWG the back had plenty of open seats but myself and another E 50 had someone stuck in between us.
This seems like a simple software fix, and would endure AC to me if just once that middle seat wasn't occupied.
May 15, 2014, 8:15 pm
#188
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
May 15, 2014, 8:17 pm
#189
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
Another question - Any plans fixing the group booking system - Its horribly broken. It used to be you called in on the phone (I've been telling AC small business/a Manager at Corp Rewards this for 18 months) and waited for an hour, which was tolerable when booking 30 tickets as we often do as part of an educational program we frequently run. AC got 100% of our business under this system. The new system has us send an email for a 48 hour response - which is a fair timeline (which is never ever ever ever met in my experience), and what comes back is most often incorrect and not what was described in the email. Both social media and corporate rewards have prodded groups on this - nobody has ever bothered to call from groups despite my offer to walk them through the issues - The result is we're left to book the fares one at a time... And AC only gets 80% of the business instead of the usual 100%.
What I have suggested to both - and Ill suggest now, is something similar to what Copa does - individual reps with individual emails who cc the backup rep on all communications so that you're dealing with the same person. And after the initial contact you get a phone number for that person. I never call our contact at Copa, I don't need to because we can resolve it in the emails. But at AC I get to deal with a new person every time, and they don't know the how or the why of the booking. Its frustrating, and it cost Air Canada 100K with our little organization last year alone. I can't help but think there are others.
What I have suggested to both - and Ill suggest now, is something similar to what Copa does - individual reps with individual emails who cc the backup rep on all communications so that you're dealing with the same person. And after the initial contact you get a phone number for that person. I never call our contact at Copa, I don't need to because we can resolve it in the emails. But at AC I get to deal with a new person every time, and they don't know the how or the why of the booking. Its frustrating, and it cost Air Canada 100K with our little organization last year alone. I can't help but think there are others.
May 15, 2014, 8:18 pm
#190
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Never home.
Posts: 2,971
I didn't I just figured demand was at that point. Ill confess when I go to HK - though I fly AC a lot - I fly CX via YYZ. They operate 777-3, so I don't get what all of the range fuss is about. If CX is doing tech stops left right and centre I think I'd have heard about it by now, and the thing is always 100% full. And cargo from Canada to that region would be lowish due to our trade deficit with the block, and the fact that much of the fish still ends up in Japan. I just think AC probably has the passenger numbers there to fill it regularly, first time I went in 06 didn't matter who you chose you got a tech stop/cnx.
CX YYZ based 777 pilot told me it was very rare to have weight restrictions, yet most AC 77W flights I've been on YYZ-HKG (and there have been quite a number over the years... maybe 4) I hear "load restriction" from the agents or FAs. Probably leaving behind standbys.
May 15, 2014, 8:25 pm
#191
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
Ben and Ben,
Many thanks for the open dialogue - much appreciated.
One piece of feedback that I'd like to pass along for your consideration is regarding the gap between Tango and Flex fares.
The initial gap between Tango and Flex on domestic routes was fairly reasonable, given that you could justify that it includes seat selection and was upgrade eligible. The current premium for Flex vs. Tango fares on most routes now appears to be +50% or more. I personally can no longer justify spending that much more on the same flight just to receive 100% status miles and a chance at using upgrade credits. Many competitors offer full status miles on all fares, and a much more reasonable premium on upgrade eligible fares.
My employer (one of top 10 largest companies in Canada by revenue/profit/market cap, and I would expect similar in travel spend) recently moved to a policy of lowest fare (Tango fares on AC) after many years of buying Flex/Tango plus fares. I understand the desire of AC to push the envelope to try to extract a premium (I've spent a few years working in Pricing in my industry), but if fewer are choosing to buy-up to Flex fares because of the widening gap, then it doesn't really help you generate additional revenue.
My spouse (who is SE) switched to another airline this year for FF program. The huge premiums for Flex fares - 50% premium for full status miles were the tipping point. I'm sticking around for this year as I am on track for E75/SE100, but am considering making the switch to another program/airline for next year because I can no longer justify paying this much more just to earn full status miles.
I'd suggest taking a closer look at your Tango vs. Flex premiums, as my belief is that many travelers and employers are deciding that Flex fares are not worth the current premium.
Many thanks for the open dialogue - much appreciated.
One piece of feedback that I'd like to pass along for your consideration is regarding the gap between Tango and Flex fares.
The initial gap between Tango and Flex on domestic routes was fairly reasonable, given that you could justify that it includes seat selection and was upgrade eligible. The current premium for Flex vs. Tango fares on most routes now appears to be +50% or more. I personally can no longer justify spending that much more on the same flight just to receive 100% status miles and a chance at using upgrade credits. Many competitors offer full status miles on all fares, and a much more reasonable premium on upgrade eligible fares.
My employer (one of top 10 largest companies in Canada by revenue/profit/market cap, and I would expect similar in travel spend) recently moved to a policy of lowest fare (Tango fares on AC) after many years of buying Flex/Tango plus fares. I understand the desire of AC to push the envelope to try to extract a premium (I've spent a few years working in Pricing in my industry), but if fewer are choosing to buy-up to Flex fares because of the widening gap, then it doesn't really help you generate additional revenue.
My spouse (who is SE) switched to another airline this year for FF program. The huge premiums for Flex fares - 50% premium for full status miles were the tipping point. I'm sticking around for this year as I am on track for E75/SE100, but am considering making the switch to another program/airline for next year because I can no longer justify paying this much more just to earn full status miles.
I'd suggest taking a closer look at your Tango vs. Flex premiums, as my belief is that many travelers and employers are deciding that Flex fares are not worth the current premium.
Flyers and companies are often in conflict over how best to manage travel costs. It always amazes me how well paid employees are often forced to wait or take less optimal routings to save small amounts of money which in my books is false economy. The strong desire of many travel managers, corporate fulfilment houses and GDS companies to try and commoditize travel makes it challenging for us to offer you as many choices as possible. However we will continue to try and expand our choice offerings so that travellers and companies can customize their purchases to match their individual needs.
May 15, 2014, 8:26 pm
#192
formerly with Air Canada
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: YYZ YUL
Posts: 423
My gut feeling is AC transports a LOT of cargo on the YYZ-HKG flights despite any trade deficit existing... CX has dedicated cargo aircraft and probably just has to worry about pax+bags on their nonstop 77Ws.
CX YYZ based 777 pilot told me it was very rare to have weight restrictions, yet most AC 77W flights I've been on YYZ-HKG (and there have been quite a number over the years... maybe 4) I hear "load restriction" from the agents or FAs. Probably leaving behind standbys.
CX YYZ based 777 pilot told me it was very rare to have weight restrictions, yet most AC 77W flights I've been on YYZ-HKG (and there have been quite a number over the years... maybe 4) I hear "load restriction" from the agents or FAs. Probably leaving behind standbys.
May 15, 2014, 8:26 pm
#193
Join Date: May 2014
Programs: AC Elite 50K
Posts: 367
Music to my ears. I'm all for technology. I've had nearly universal positive experiences with all AC staff - but at the end of the day I am a Millennial - I'd be just as happy to build my own group booking on your website, put down a credit card to cover the deposit and automatically pay on the due dates.
May 15, 2014, 8:27 pm
#194
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC: Ac*A, , Nexus: Expired
Posts: 1,489
Kudos to Ben Squared. You two brought some smiles and promise to some vocal and seemingly upset customers!
Well Done.
My only comment would be to try and announce any changes to the Altitude program well in advance. The Co_pay announcement so late in the year left a sour taste in many peoples mouths.
Well Done.
My only comment would be to try and announce any changes to the Altitude program well in advance. The Co_pay announcement so late in the year left a sour taste in many peoples mouths.
May 15, 2014, 8:29 pm
#195
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
Indeed. Kudos to Ben Squared and welcome.
Can either of you look into VOML and NLML meals that are supposed to be dairy free? Multiple complaints later and the coffee creamers which contain milk are still consistently on the plates. Would hate to see someone suffer a dairy allergy onboard. Tx!
Can either of you look into VOML and NLML meals that are supposed to be dairy free? Multiple complaints later and the coffee creamers which contain milk are still consistently on the plates. Would hate to see someone suffer a dairy allergy onboard. Tx!