AC Presence on FT
Dec 10, 2015, 8:57 am
#1816
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
They way they were treated and their subsequent departure was one of the two things that, for me,mostly ruined Flyertalk. The information we had from them, albeit not always delivered in the way people wanted to hear it, was factual, important and often stopped a mound of unfounded speculation in threads.
@Alvest: I have never considered this place to be social media, thus I appreciated the direct, un-flowery, non-marketing speak of their participation. If I want the PC, BS, I'll go to conventional social media platforms and press releases. I'd rather they tell me directly what they are trying to do than to sugarcoat anything. I'm a big boy and don't need to be patronized.
@24 Left: I do not blame them for walking away they did. People felt personally attacked by a corporation's decisions and responded in a hateful and slanderous manner. These reactions, in my opinion, confirmed that FT AC thread is (for the most part) a minuscule over-entitled subsection of the real flying picture and the reaction of the bullies on the thread determined that the participation of Ben L & Andrew is not merited. Since the tone of the forum seems to have matured over the last few weeks, maybe there is hope for a comeback. But we certainly do not deserve it.
@Alvest: I have never considered this place to be social media, thus I appreciated the direct, un-flowery, non-marketing speak of their participation. If I want the PC, BS, I'll go to conventional social media platforms and press releases. I'd rather they tell me directly what they are trying to do than to sugarcoat anything. I'm a big boy and don't need to be patronized.
@24 Left: I do not blame them for walking away they did. People felt personally attacked by a corporation's decisions and responded in a hateful and slanderous manner. These reactions, in my opinion, confirmed that FT AC thread is (for the most part) a minuscule over-entitled subsection of the real flying picture and the reaction of the bullies on the thread determined that the participation of Ben L & Andrew is not merited. Since the tone of the forum seems to have matured over the last few weeks, maybe there is hope for a comeback. But we certainly do not deserve it.
I never got a shred of useful info from the Bens on flyertalk. I can honestly say that. The entire AC marketing organization is fraught with hypocrisy and self enamoury spinning cheap and dirty into pearls and oysters.
There just isn't any info to believe and therefore it's useless.
Dec 10, 2015, 8:59 am
#1817
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
Well I don't see why it's ok for them to not sugar coat things and for the replies to have to be sugar coated lest one is committed to FT purgatory. And the way, for instance, the discussion went about YQ being non fuel but fuel and not really fuel but admin and not admin but fuel, and anyway it's just it and so be it, but that's subject to change without notice was totally ridiculous and worthless.
I never got a shred of useful info from the Bens on flyertalk. I can honestly say that. The entire AC marketing organization is fraught with hypocrisy and self enamoury spinning cheap and dirty into pearls and oysters.
There just isn't any info to believe and therefore it's useless.
I never got a shred of useful info from the Bens on flyertalk. I can honestly say that. The entire AC marketing organization is fraught with hypocrisy and self enamoury spinning cheap and dirty into pearls and oysters.
There just isn't any info to believe and therefore it's useless.
Dec 10, 2015, 9:08 am
#1818
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
You might have missed my post/edit on the previous page:
My initial comments on the participation of Ben, Ben, Andrew, along with the excellent additional comments from adam.smith that followed my posts are here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25829199-post1828.html
EDIT: @PLeblond
Some days, I agree with your description that AC FT might be comprised of "minuscule over-entitled subsection of the real flying picture".
However, as adam.smith said in that thread, and as Dorian has also said in the past, AC FTers are a passionate group. Back in March at the YVR Do, I commented that most of us really like Air Canada. We fly Air Canada, we spend time helping others with ideas and solutions and quite frankly, we are a pretty talented bunch with a lot of great ideas and some solutions.
The challenge, I believe, is that some just don't like how AC treats its customers sometimes, how the IT is a mess and impacts on our ease of use, or fails us, how some programs are launched without always seeing the impact on the customers and so on.
Thus, as I stated before, it was understandable that the AC reps who were here, got an earful. Sifting the great stuff from the rants is not always an easy task, but it seems to me it is worth ACs time.
Regardless of what anyone else thinks, AC has benefited from the ideas posted here. For whatever reason, they can't see to handle the noisy bunch that we are and the criticism.
Missed opportunity if you ask me.
.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25829199-post1828.html
EDIT: @PLeblond
Some days, I agree with your description that AC FT might be comprised of "minuscule over-entitled subsection of the real flying picture".
However, as adam.smith said in that thread, and as Dorian has also said in the past, AC FTers are a passionate group. Back in March at the YVR Do, I commented that most of us really like Air Canada. We fly Air Canada, we spend time helping others with ideas and solutions and quite frankly, we are a pretty talented bunch with a lot of great ideas and some solutions.
The challenge, I believe, is that some just don't like how AC treats its customers sometimes, how the IT is a mess and impacts on our ease of use, or fails us, how some programs are launched without always seeing the impact on the customers and so on.
Thus, as I stated before, it was understandable that the AC reps who were here, got an earful. Sifting the great stuff from the rants is not always an easy task, but it seems to me it is worth ACs time.
Regardless of what anyone else thinks, AC has benefited from the ideas posted here. For whatever reason, they can't see to handle the noisy bunch that we are and the criticism.
Missed opportunity if you ask me.
.
Dec 10, 2015, 9:23 am
#1819
Formerly known as tireman77
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,488
Well I don't see why it's ok for them to not sugar coat things and for the replies to have to be sugar coated lest one is committed to FT purgatory. And the way, for instance, the discussion went about YQ being non fuel but fuel and not really fuel but admin and not admin but fuel, and anyway it's just it and so be it, but that's subject to change without notice was totally ridiculous and worthless.
I never got a shred of useful info from the Bens on flyertalk. I can honestly say that. The entire AC marketing organization is fraught with hypocrisy and self enamoury spinning cheap and dirty into pearls and oysters.
There just isn't any info to believe and therefore it's useless.
I never got a shred of useful info from the Bens on flyertalk. I can honestly say that. The entire AC marketing organization is fraught with hypocrisy and self enamoury spinning cheap and dirty into pearls and oysters.
There just isn't any info to believe and therefore it's useless.
I got a lot of great info from Ben L and Andrew. Most of it was succinct and stopped threads dead in their tracks with actual facts. I am cognizant that they cannot say everything, but got a ton of solid real world info. Those threads that died would have continued for hundreds of posts with supposition and many grassy knoll conspiracies.
And, on the non-sugar coated replies... if you reread them (especially those that were deleted) you might agree that many of them were extremely over the top and personal. Slinging insults from behind an internet handle requires very little in the way of cojones, so it was never a level playing field to begin with.
Last edited by PLeblond; Dec 10, 2015 at 9:32 am Reason: typos
Dec 10, 2015, 9:38 am
#1820
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
This is where we differ in opinion. I don't care about AC's marketing. I don't care about AC's IT, (as long as I can do what I need to do: buy tickets and fly...which I can). I don't care about the jibber-jabber YQ fee breakdown, simply what it costs me to fly from A to B. I don't think the airline owes me anything.
I got a lot of great info from Ben L and Andrew. Most of it was succinct and stopped threads dead in their tracks with actual facts. I am cognizant that they cannot say everything, but got a ton of solid real world info. Those threads that died would have continued for hundreds of posts with supposition and many grassy knoll conspiracies.
And, on the non-sugar coated replies... if you reread them (especially those that were deleted) you might agree that many of them were extremely over the top and personal. Slinging insults from behind an internet handle requires very little in the way of cojones, so it was never a level playing field to begin with.
I got a lot of great info from Ben L and Andrew. Most of it was succinct and stopped threads dead in their tracks with actual facts. I am cognizant that they cannot say everything, but got a ton of solid real world info. Those threads that died would have continued for hundreds of posts with supposition and many grassy knoll conspiracies.
And, on the non-sugar coated replies... if you reread them (especially those that were deleted) you might agree that many of them were extremely over the top and personal. Slinging insults from behind an internet handle requires very little in the way of cojones, so it was never a level playing field to begin with.
I have no beef with you or anyone on FT or anywhere. I just don't take well to having the wool pulled over my eyes. It is one of AC's specialty (although lately Hertz has surpassed AC in shenanigans).
We can agree to disagree though. I am ok with that.
The insults originated with AC. Only when they were reflected back on them did they get cagey and defensive. For myself I never hid behind an Internet handle.
Dec 10, 2015, 9:42 am
#1821
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
hi all,
i've been a member of this community since 2006, and was a lurker before that. When i first stumbled across flyertalk, it was a redirect from google and initially i couldn't believe there were others out there like me who were obsessed with this industry: I read trip reports for fun, i think in city codes, i will go out of my way to add a few extra segments (preferably in j) to my trip just for the sake of it. I love the ac brand and have wanted to work there since i was 12 years old.
Well, now i do work for air canada. I actually have flyertalk to thank for helping me get my job, but that's another story.
I know that we have not always been been as active in this forum as many of you would have liked; i'm here with the support of the company to try to change that. I will chime in and answer questions where i can, offering help to those that need it and giving insight where appropriate. We will still use the air canada altitude account to officially communicate with you regarding the altitude program and related topics, but for the rest i'm happy to be the point of contact.
Speaking of contact, and in the interests of transparency, my email address is [email protected] - please feel free to use it.
I look forward to starting the conversation with you.
Ben
i've been a member of this community since 2006, and was a lurker before that. When i first stumbled across flyertalk, it was a redirect from google and initially i couldn't believe there were others out there like me who were obsessed with this industry: I read trip reports for fun, i think in city codes, i will go out of my way to add a few extra segments (preferably in j) to my trip just for the sake of it. I love the ac brand and have wanted to work there since i was 12 years old.
Well, now i do work for air canada. I actually have flyertalk to thank for helping me get my job, but that's another story.
I know that we have not always been been as active in this forum as many of you would have liked; i'm here with the support of the company to try to change that. I will chime in and answer questions where i can, offering help to those that need it and giving insight where appropriate. We will still use the air canada altitude account to officially communicate with you regarding the altitude program and related topics, but for the rest i'm happy to be the point of contact.
Speaking of contact, and in the interests of transparency, my email address is [email protected] - please feel free to use it.
I look forward to starting the conversation with you.
Ben
Dec 10, 2015, 9:46 am
#1822
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
Dec 10, 2015, 9:46 am
#1823
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: YKF
Programs: AC Elite 50K, Amex AP Plat, Choice Privileges, National Exec Elite, Via Prefrence
Posts: 2,996
This is where we differ in opinion. I don't care about AC's marketing. I don't care about AC's IT, (as long as I can do what I need to do: buy tickets and fly...which I can). I don't care about the jibber-jabber YQ fee breakdown, simply what it costs me to fly from A to B.
I got a lot of great info from Ben L and Andrew. Most of it was succinct and stopped threads dead in their tracks with actual facts. I am cognizant that they cannot say everything, but got a ton of solid real world info. Those threads that died would have continued for hundreds of posts with supposition and many grassy knoll conspiracies.
And, on the non-sugar coated replies... if you reread them (especially those that were deleted) you might agree that many of them were extremely over the top and personal. Slinging insults from behind an internet handle requires very little in the way of cojones, so it was never a level playing field to begin with.
And, on the non-sugar coated replies... if you reread them (especially those that were deleted) you might agree that many of them were extremely over the top and personal. Slinging insults from behind an internet handle requires very little in the way of cojones, so it was never a level playing field to begin with.
Given your own candid admission that the 'just visiting' Bens mostly ruined FT for you, I am surprised by your posting efforts.
Last edited by kwflyer; Dec 10, 2015 at 10:12 am
Dec 10, 2015, 9:47 am
#1824
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West
Posts: 3,357
I got a lot of great info from Ben L and Andrew. Most of it was succinct and stopped threads dead in their tracks with actual facts. I am cognizant that they cannot say everything, but got a ton of solid real world info. Those threads that died would have continued for hundreds of posts with supposition and many grassy knoll conspiracies.
Last edited by 1Newflyer; Dec 10, 2015 at 10:09 am
Dec 10, 2015, 9:53 am
#1826
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC E50K (*G) WS Gold | SPG/Fairmont Plat Hilton/Hyatt Diamond Marriott Silver | National Exec Elite
Posts: 19,284
1) eUpgrade priority list
2) Explaining the rationale behind the Altitude 2015 changes (increase yield etc)
3) Zonal boarding introduction (AY was behind this)
4) Giving us headsup that IBC meals were about to get better (pre Hawksworth), and that domestic meals will be improving in 2016
5) The strategy behind the 777HD - Ben Smith explained this (competition with AF, what AF product is like) etc.
6) Old routes and old products (Ben Smith)
7) Prior to the reconfiguration of certain aircraft, Ben Lipsey shared with us they were upcoming and gave us a good headsup that change was coming.
etc etc.
There's a lot of words thrown by (not you) certain people around here. Such hyperboles. FT is like a TV, if one doesn't like what one is reading, simply ignore it and move on. The fact is, to many of us on here, there was a lot of value from the AC staff.
Sure, some of us now meet with these fine individuals offline and we have built a relationship with them, but it is a detriment to many of those who don't have the time or the inkling to do so. Heck, I'm proud to have lunch with an AC director next Monday. Will I share the content with any of you? No - because it's a private conversation. Will I learn a lot? I'm absolutely sure of it.
Does FT benefit from this? No.
PS It's no secret AC lurks these boards. So they benefit from our conversations. Do we? Nope, not anymore.
Dec 10, 2015, 9:59 am
#1827
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Air Canada Super Elite 2+ Million Miles
Posts: 2,478
I for one prefer to have official communications from AC on their main communications platform, which forces into the public light what AC is up to. And what I value from FT is the clarification from other travellers on their experiences with AC - and creeping up on 2MM, I still make plenty of travel mistakes or overlook what alternatives AC might have to offer.
but my tolerance for intolerance is ZERO.
but my tolerance for intolerance is ZERO.
Last edited by tcook052; Dec 10, 2015 at 10:10 am Reason: off topic
Dec 10, 2015, 10:03 am
#1828
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
Just off the top of my head, this list is by no means exhaustive.
1) eUpgrade priority list
2) Explaining the rationale behind the Altitude 2015 changes (increase yield etc)
3) Zonal boarding introduction (AY was behind this)
4) Giving us headsup that IBC meals were about to get better (pre Hawksworth), and that domestic meals will be improving in 2016
5) The strategy behind the 777HD - Ben Smith explained this (competition with AF, what AF product is like) etc.
6) Old routes and old products (Ben Smith)
7) Prior to the reconfiguration of certain aircraft, Ben Lipsey shared with us they were upcoming and gave us a good headsup that change was coming.
etc etc.
There's a lot of words thrown by (not you) certain people around here. Such hyperboles. FT is like a TV, if one doesn't like what one is reading, simply ignore it and move on. The fact is, to many of us on here, there was a lot of value from the AC staff.
Sure, some of us now meet with these fine individuals offline and we have built a relationship with them, but it is a detriment to many of those who don't have the time or the inkling to do so. Heck, I'm proud to have lunch with an AC director next Monday. Will I share the content with any of you? No - because it's a private conversation. Will I learn a lot? I'm absolutely sure of it.
Does FT benefit from this? No.
PS It's no secret AC lurks these boards. So they benefit from our conversations. Do we? Nope, not anymore.
1) eUpgrade priority list
2) Explaining the rationale behind the Altitude 2015 changes (increase yield etc)
3) Zonal boarding introduction (AY was behind this)
4) Giving us headsup that IBC meals were about to get better (pre Hawksworth), and that domestic meals will be improving in 2016
5) The strategy behind the 777HD - Ben Smith explained this (competition with AF, what AF product is like) etc.
6) Old routes and old products (Ben Smith)
7) Prior to the reconfiguration of certain aircraft, Ben Lipsey shared with us they were upcoming and gave us a good headsup that change was coming.
etc etc.
There's a lot of words thrown by (not you) certain people around here. Such hyperboles. FT is like a TV, if one doesn't like what one is reading, simply ignore it and move on. The fact is, to many of us on here, there was a lot of value from the AC staff.
Sure, some of us now meet with these fine individuals offline and we have built a relationship with them, but it is a detriment to many of those who don't have the time or the inkling to do so. Heck, I'm proud to have lunch with an AC director next Monday. Will I share the content with any of you? No - because it's a private conversation. Will I learn a lot? I'm absolutely sure of it.
Does FT benefit from this? No.
PS It's no secret AC lurks these boards. So they benefit from our conversations. Do we? Nope, not anymore.
For an airline who doesn't appreciate a customer unless they spend $20k on their fares I am sure surprised they actually interact with a 75K and what the purpose would be for a "Director" to meet with you. Maybe you could ask them why AC is unable to keep their planes clean. That's just about all I am interested in knowing. I know it made sense to keep their planes filthy back to keep us from cheapening their seats but now that we pay full pop I would say there is a failure in service to the very customer they have just targeted to be elevated to super elite 2017 status.
Dec 10, 2015, 10:09 am
#1829
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,438
Folks this thread isn't a place to talk about other posters it's to civilly discuss the AC engagement in this forum. Let's focus on that and not each other.
Regards,
tcook052
AC forum moderator
Regards,
tcook052
AC forum moderator
Dec 10, 2015, 10:12 am
#1830
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
But they don't participate any more. So maybe this thread has served its purpose.
