AC Presence on FT

Old Jul 5, 15, 1:53 am
  #1726  
 
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Originally Posted by 1Newflyer View Post
Scratch your head some more and it may come to you. Those "individuals" have on numerous occasions indicated their reasons. One may not accept their reasons but that is not what you are questioning. There are those that do not like our government but still "support" it (obeying laws, paying taxes ..... )
I guess this would be an even stronger argument if there wasn't an alternative to AC.

You can't completely swap governments overnight (RIP Alberta), but you can definitely switch to WS and OW airlines overnight.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 2:40 am
  #1727  
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Originally Posted by SparseFlyer View Post
I guess this would be an even stronger argument if there wasn't an alternative to AC.

You can't completely swap governments overnight (RIP Alberta), but you can definitely switch to WS and OW airlines overnight.
Once again, not from second tier cities and traveling J international and without US connections. AC has this second tier market quite under control.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 4:16 am
  #1728  
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Originally Posted by The Lev View Post
Must say that it was much nicer when they called them "benefits" instead of "privileges"...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...-benefits.html


Nothing was "free" - you earned status by paying to fly.

Are you surprised that people complain when "privileges" they used to enjoy are systematically taken away?
I pay to buy gas and the oil company hasn't improved their benefits/privileges of the last many years and in fact barely give any. Why do airlines need to be different. I flew AC as a loyal customer long before Aeroplan came along and did take advantage of their early largess as the miles came in droves. Then along came AIF's, high fuel costs, security costs and increased airport rents. No airline in the industry was making money but they were giving seats away like candy. Rational economics finally took over helped by ever efficient software that allows them to right size planes for each market they serve and keep them pretty full with PAYING customers.

Am I surprised that people complain? Not at all, its human nature. BUT, most of the complainers want freebies and things that are clearly unaffordable to business today due to the above cost changes we have seen. That being said, the fact I can buy an Asian pass in J(Z,C,D) for much less than I could get that seat even 10 years ago tells me where the airline's priorities are. They make money selling tickets, not giving them away. As for upgrades, before AE there was the very lucky person who got an upgrade to the front cabin only when flights were oversold, now people see it as their right because of a certain status. Do you really think the average FF'er (an AC E50 in this case) should feel they have the right to get upgrades just about any time or even have unlimited access to a lounge? The CC companies have jumped into this market and are charging for the privilege so airlines will soon dump that privilege for those who don't provide them serious revenue (AC will soon have a separate high end lounge in most major airports in Canada and their major airports abroad). Lets see how many E50's will pay for the lounge privilege that I get for free because I deliver serious revenue to the airline. Upgrade privileges for me have not changed at all because I maintain a higher level of spend and get treated accordingly. I do have to pay more for most flying but it is less on an inflation basis than I paid 25 years ago.
You fly a lot of Tango to save your company money and give good impressions to your staff. Do you really expect the airline to reward you for your parsimonious ways as a low margin customer, compared to someone who spends for higher fares?
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Old Jul 5, 15, 6:58 am
  #1729  
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Originally Posted by winnipegrev View Post
Hey, that was my thread!

I will say that Naya water is at Dollarama. I rest my case
Nothing against the thread and nothing personal. Its just a perfect example that most of the content generated around here is clear as mud.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 7:06 am
  #1730  
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Originally Posted by why fly View Post
Is AC actually interested in improvements? Looks like they just want a bonus cheque/check.
I am pretty sure AC is very interested in continual improvement.

I am also quite certain that they have multiple forms of feedback from a myriad of sources. I would even go so far as to say that any improvements that AC have done started from those other sources and are simply reflected in some peoples input on Flyertalk, and not actually sourced from in here.

There is a much bigger world out there. Maybe FT is like the small tribe of cavemen who think that they make the sun go up and down in the sky with their rituals completely oblivious to the concept of a solar system?
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Old Jul 5, 15, 7:08 am
  #1731  
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post
Nothing against the thread and nothing personal. Its just a perfect example that most of the content generated around here is clear as mud.
Nothing personal, but the AC reps clearly fail in their ability or willingness to clarify anything here. It's all hazy, semi confidential, quasi proprietary. The only clearly stated things so far are: AC isn't a charity, FT'ers don't matter to them and any information is subject to change the moment it's made public.

It certainly enhances the level of discord on FT's AC forum.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 7:10 am
  #1732  
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post
I am pretty sure AC is very interested in continual improvement.

I am also quite certain that they have multiple forms of feedback from a myriad of sources. I would even go so far as to say that any improvements that AC have done started from those other sources and are simply reflected in some peoples input on Flyertalk, and not actually sourced from in here.

There is a much bigger world out there. Maybe FT is like the small tribe of cavemen who think that they make the sun go up and down in the sky with their rituals completely oblivious to the concept of a solar system?
Ben S himself stated that FT feedback contributed to several changes or implementations. Either he is a liar or Ben L is for stating that FT doesn't matter.

Welcome to the caveman tribe. You can't participate and exclude yourself from these rituals at the same time.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 7:21 am
  #1733  
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Originally Posted by Hello again View Post
I pay to buy gas and the oil company hasn't improved their benefits/privileges of the last many years and in fact barely give any. Why do airlines need to be different.
Airlines don't need to be any different - Ryanair and Easyjet do very well with few if any benefits/privileges. Many legacy carriers like Air Canada feel that it makes business sense for them to offer benefits in order to buy customer loyalty. Translation: give benefits to the flyer to encourage them to pay more or accept less than optimal flights/connection. Good for the airline, good for the flyer, perhaps less good for whoever is paying.

Originally Posted by Hello again View Post
You fly a lot of Tango to save your company money and give good impressions to your staff. Do you really expect the airline to reward you for your parsimonious ways as a low margin customer, compared to someone who spends for higher fares?
As a SEMM like you, I expect to be rewarded the same way as you are. As a younger, smaller person, I'm more willing to accept Y seating (particularly domestically) than you, so I can be more strategic about what fare I buy and how I manage my "privileges".

Last edited by The Lev; Jul 5, 15 at 7:30 am
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Old Jul 5, 15, 7:21 am
  #1734  
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Originally Posted by Allvest View Post
Ben S himself stated that FT feedback contributed to several changes or implementations. Either he is a liar or Ben L is for stating that FT doesn't matter.

Welcome to the caveman tribe. You can't participate and exclude yourself from these rituals at the same time.
Where exactly am I excluding myself?

I do find the contradictions hilarious though. People here screaming that AC does not listen to them, yet claim to be the source of all the positive things. Claim to be AC's 'most important customers' while saying that they have no choice but to fly AC.

I am simply pointing out the colossal irony that calls itself Flyertalk.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 7:29 am
  #1735  
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Originally Posted by Allvest View Post
Nothing personal, but the AC reps clearly fail in their ability or willingness to clarify anything here. It's all hazy, semi confidential, quasi proprietary. The only clearly stated things so far are: AC isn't a charity, FT'ers don't matter to them and any information is subject to change the moment it's made public.

It certainly enhances the level of discord on FT's AC forum.
I truly appreciate their participation, as limited in the information they can offer is. I'll take what I can get and do not expect an all or nothing participation.

That being said, I have on several occasions stated that they cannot win by posting here. As soon as an official AC person logs on, I can hear the sounds of pitchforks being distributed. Looking to pounce on every word that could come from them.

The cherry on the sundae is that most people here post from the safe haven of a handle. The hypocrisy of hurling insults from the protection of anonymity is the tipping point that makes any possible discussion completely unfair. I commend them for trying to engage, but because of this, it will never work.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 7:30 am
  #1736  
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post
Where exactly am I excluding myself?

I do find the contradictions hilarious though. People here screaming that AC does not listen to them, yet claim to be the source of all the positive things. Claim to be AC's 'most important customers' while saying that they have no choice but to fly AC.

I am simply pointing out the colossal irony that calls itself Flyertalk.
As for myself I never claim to be their "most important" customer. And I never claim I have "no choice". What I claim is that I am "an important customer who would be greatly inconvenienced by walking from AC"
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Old Jul 5, 15, 7:49 am
  #1737  
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Originally Posted by Allvest View Post
As for myself I never claim to be their "most important" customer. And I never claim I have "no choice". What I claim is that I am "an important customer who would be greatly inconvenienced by walking from AC"
I was not referring to any individual, but to the loudest congregated voice I hear emanating from within these cyber-walls.

This 'voice' coupled with threads where everyone's opinion is so varied that it is impossible to draw a consensus (or even a direction of thought) is why, I believe, AC cannot draw much useful information from Flyertalk. I would guess that they reference FT against other sources of feedback to add another data point, but nothing more.

There are many good ideas and useful tidbits in here, but I feel they are more often than not drowned out.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 8:59 am
  #1738  
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Originally Posted by PLeblond View Post

There are many good ideas and useful tidbits in here, but I feel they are more often than not drowned out.
I agree, the useful suggestions are drown out by a very few verbal FT'er who think everything AC is wonderful.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 9:09 am
  #1739  
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Originally Posted by why fly View Post
I agree, the useful suggestions are drown out by a very few verbal FT'er who think everything AC is wonderful.
Or those certainly give the Bens a false sense of security.
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Old Jul 5, 15, 10:05 am
  #1740  
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Originally Posted by why fly View Post
I agree, the useful suggestions are drown out by a very few verbal FT'er who think everything AC is wonderful.
That's funny. I don't read any posts of people who think AC is wonderful. Unless your definition of "AC not the worst airline in the world" as wonderful. We may have different personal dictionaries.

Honestly, I wasn't expecting you to agree with my point, mostly just because I wrote it..but that's OK.

I was hoping it would make people take a step back and think that maybe the constant cathartic bemoaning that screams off threads like this one might be hurting FT's influence over AC more than helping. But I should have known better. Apologies if the idea I am throwing made a swoosh noise as it passes over many peoples' heads is disrupting the constant bickering.

Carry-on.
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