AC Presence on FT
Jul 3, 2015, 4:35 am
#1636
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 557
My thoughts only. He is a dedicated Company employee who loves the industry he is in and the company he works for. As I just said in another post, AC gets their customer feedback from various and many sources with FT being one of them in an ever decreasing level of interest if you notice the total absence of their two former major contributors, Andrew and Ben S. I also think Ben L. might soon be history as well. You might see an AC presence here when they make major announcements like the 2016 program or similar announcements that affect passengers. They do know that a very small % of their pax post here.
Jul 3, 2015, 4:40 am
#1637
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
My thoughts only. He is a dedicated Company employee who loves the industry he is in and the company he works for. As I just said in another post, AC gets their customer feedback from various and many sources with FT being one of them in an ever decreasing level of interest if you notice the total absence of their two former major contributors, Andrew and Ben S. I also think Ben L. might soon be history as well.
Ben S is part of the whole problem. He is senior management and his decisions are crystal clear in that the customer comes last. he couldn't possibly be considered an ambassador.
Ben L, well, his Forum persona is just clumsy. Nothing else to say.
I don't think AC reps are given the tools to do useful work on FT.
Jul 3, 2015, 6:55 am
#1638
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 12,068
Andrew, was my impression at the time, was thrown under the bus by management. I can't recall the exact issues but it appeared he communicated good and simple intentions or made announcements which were not followed by the company. As far as I know he wasn't beraded the way Ben L has set himself up to be.
Ben S is part of the whole problem. He is senior management and his decisions are crystal clear in that the customer comes last. he couldn't possibly be considered an ambassador.
Ben L, well, his Forum persona is just clumsy. Nothing else to say.
I don't think AC reps are given the tools to do useful work on FT.
Ben S is part of the whole problem. He is senior management and his decisions are crystal clear in that the customer comes last. he couldn't possibly be considered an ambassador.
Ben L, well, his Forum persona is just clumsy. Nothing else to say.
I don't think AC reps are given the tools to do useful work on FT.
Do not know Ben L but do hope to meet him some day
Jul 3, 2015, 7:58 am
#1639
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,153
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23738496-post69.html
"the reason we participate here is to share some of our thinking and hear opinions from our customers on what improvements and/or changes they would like to see. We have listened to many of the various suggestions from this board and over the past few months when appropriate have instituted several ideas that came directly from FT members. "
Whereas his underling says that FT doesn't count.
Which is it?
And I really don't care if these guys are "nice". I am not trying to be friends with them. I care about the relevance of their messages and their consistency and honesty in transmitting them.
Jul 3, 2015, 8:54 am
#1640
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West
Posts: 3,357
His situation is not unique as all managers "step out of the office" and most professionals carry their work home and elsewhere. Lets face it, this thread and forum is not about how best to fly a kite and he contributes for your enjoyment. Important to know how much of his own time he provides to the remaining 99.9999999% of AC's pax.
Jul 3, 2015, 8:59 am
#1641
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: YVR
Programs: ACSEMM QRGold SPGLifetimePlat FairmontPlat HyattD AMEXCenturion SerenaPlat TalkBoard Founding Member
Posts: 8,963
Ben S says he listens and actually confirmed that AC has taken things from FT discussions and implemented them.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23738496-post69.html
"the reason we participate here is to share some of our thinking and hear opinions from our customers on what improvements and/or changes they would like to see. We have listened to many of the various suggestions from this board and over the past few months when appropriate have instituted several ideas that came directly from FT members. "
Whereas his underling says that FT doesn't count.
Which is it?
And I really don't care if these guys are "nice". I am not trying to be friends with them. I care about the relevance of their messages and their consistency and honesty in transmitting them.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23738496-post69.html
"the reason we participate here is to share some of our thinking and hear opinions from our customers on what improvements and/or changes they would like to see. We have listened to many of the various suggestions from this board and over the past few months when appropriate have instituted several ideas that came directly from FT members. "
Whereas his underling says that FT doesn't count.
Which is it?
And I really don't care if these guys are "nice". I am not trying to be friends with them. I care about the relevance of their messages and their consistency and honesty in transmitting them.
Two way street?
You complain when people take your explicit claim at face value, then complain about statements that were never made.
Sure, I accept that you meant to be hyperbolic and inadvertently used the wrong word. But you should not be surprised, nor offended, when people take a precise value preceded by the word "literally" as a statement of literal fact.
But then you go on to repeatedly claim that someone has stated that FT was able to "force" AC to make changes. That's your word, and you are the only person who has used it in this discussion.
I very specifically and carefully chose the word "effected", and from all appearances it appears to be an appropriate choice. There have been several times when Air Canada representatives have used phrases like "we heard you", and I think on one occasion even used a phrase similar to "loud and clear."
Regardless, there have been many cases over the years where Air Canada has made changes to the FF program, benefits, etc, that seem directly in line with complaints or concerns that were previously raised in this forum. No, FT did not "force" the changes, but it seems FT was often one of the (or the only) proximate cause of the changes, even if all FT did was initiate interest in the eyes of people (at Air Canada) who were able to "force" the changes. That is, FT effected the change.
Yes, it's possible that in every case the changes would have been made even if FT did not exist, though that seems improbable. But if that is the case, it would suggest that the AC forum on FT is astonishingly representative of either Air Canada management, Air Canada passengers in general, or both.
I'd suggest the root of you problems in/with this thread have to do with sloppy language. You used the wrong word to suggest something you apparently didn't mean to, and then, inadvertently or otherwise, set up a straw man to attack when you misread someone else's post.
If you're going to use FT or any other public forum as a communication channel, I'd suggest that your language needs to be a lot more precise, in both directions.
You complain when people take your explicit claim at face value, then complain about statements that were never made.
Sure, I accept that you meant to be hyperbolic and inadvertently used the wrong word. But you should not be surprised, nor offended, when people take a precise value preceded by the word "literally" as a statement of literal fact.
But then you go on to repeatedly claim that someone has stated that FT was able to "force" AC to make changes. That's your word, and you are the only person who has used it in this discussion.
I very specifically and carefully chose the word "effected", and from all appearances it appears to be an appropriate choice. There have been several times when Air Canada representatives have used phrases like "we heard you", and I think on one occasion even used a phrase similar to "loud and clear."
Regardless, there have been many cases over the years where Air Canada has made changes to the FF program, benefits, etc, that seem directly in line with complaints or concerns that were previously raised in this forum. No, FT did not "force" the changes, but it seems FT was often one of the (or the only) proximate cause of the changes, even if all FT did was initiate interest in the eyes of people (at Air Canada) who were able to "force" the changes. That is, FT effected the change.
Yes, it's possible that in every case the changes would have been made even if FT did not exist, though that seems improbable. But if that is the case, it would suggest that the AC forum on FT is astonishingly representative of either Air Canada management, Air Canada passengers in general, or both.
I'd suggest the root of you problems in/with this thread have to do with sloppy language. You used the wrong word to suggest something you apparently didn't mean to, and then, inadvertently or otherwise, set up a straw man to attack when you misread someone else's post.
If you're going to use FT or any other public forum as a communication channel, I'd suggest that your language needs to be a lot more precise, in both directions.
Jul 3, 2015, 9:05 am
#1642
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
His presence here is not his own time. His position 'requires' public engagement and that figures into his overall compensation. I didn't think he is being paid by the hour. Its like saying his attendance at parties, dinners, outings with colleagues, business partners, suppliers or even customers is on his own time.
His situation is not unique as all managers "step out of the office" and most professionals carry their work home and elsewhere. Lets face it, this thread and forum is not about how best to fly a kite and he contributes for your enjoyment. Important to know how much of his own time he provides to the remaining 99.9999999% of AC's pax.
His situation is not unique as all managers "step out of the office" and most professionals carry their work home and elsewhere. Lets face it, this thread and forum is not about how best to fly a kite and he contributes for your enjoyment. Important to know how much of his own time he provides to the remaining 99.9999999% of AC's pax.
That's like nearly one billion times more than the ones on FT.
Jul 3, 2015, 9:13 am
#1643
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: YEG
Programs: AC Lifetime SE100K, 3MM, SPG Lifetime Plat, Hertz PC, National Executive Elite
Posts: 2,901
Personally, I don't get the direction in which this thread is going. It appears that, on the subject of the AC involvement (more specifically, Ben's involvement), there are 2 different groups. Those that appreciate the un-edited direct feedback, and those that don't. It seems to me that the solution is very simple. If you appreciate the posts that Ben makes, read them. If you don't appreciate it, and don't respect him, then just ignore him. If you disagree with what he says, then debate what he says. The personal attacks do nothing to increase the credibility of the author of the attack.
Last edited by YEG_SE4Life; Jul 3, 2015 at 10:14 am
Jul 3, 2015, 12:45 pm
#1644
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Personally, I don't get the direction in which this thread is going. It appears that, on the subject of the AC involvement (more specifically, participants' responses to various claims), there are 2 different groups. Those that appreciate the un-edited direct feedback, and those that don't.
Jul 3, 2015, 12:54 pm
#1647
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Jul 3, 2015, 1:02 pm
#1648
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Body in Downtown YYZ, heart and mind elsewhere
Programs: UA 50K, refugee from AC E50K, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 5,132
If I worked for an airline or a hotel or a car rental company or a travel agency, I would view FT as a way to get completely free and brutally honest feedback from a bunch of peeps who actually know and understand not only my product but those of my competitors. As such, I would try to cultivate a relationship of sorts to encourage a continuous flow of feedback and suggestions which I could then use to improve my product offerings.
But I guess that's just me.
But I guess that's just me.
Jul 3, 2015, 1:09 pm
#1649
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Titanium, National Executive
Posts: 1,586
Personally, I don't get the direction in which this thread is going. It appears that, on the subject of the AC involvement (more specifically, participants' responses to various claims), there are 2 different groups. Those that appreciate the un-edited direct feedback, and those that don't.
The number of responses will also give an idea of how many are following this thread without actively posting (like me).
Jul 3, 2015, 1:16 pm
#1650
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: YYC
Posts: 23,802
If I worked for an airline or a hotel or a car rental company or a travel agency, I would view FT as a way to get completely free and brutally honest feedback from a bunch of peeps who actually know and understand not only my product but those of my competitors. As such, I would try to cultivate a relationship of sorts to encourage a continuous flow of feedback and suggestions which I could then use to improve my product offerings.
On the whole they do a fair job of it.